Newly found species fills evolutionary gap between fish and land animals

EurekAlert (AAAS) ^ | 05 April 2006 | Staff

[ml1954]

PH saw fit to put it in his list of "Brain on Creationism" quotes, IIRC.

No, that must be another one. I'm referring to a discussion I had with you where you stated this. If you make me dig it up and then equivocate and deny it you won't be moving up on my list of favorite people.

So why not just start with whether or not you recognize a difference between the natural and supernatural. Do you?

[Conservative Texan Mom]

And see, who says philosophy has come up with no new info in years and years. Perhaps it has, it's just being ignored.

You know what else I find interesting, This! Morality, values, virtues, and ethics, that are determined to be beneficial to life and happiness, and are derived from purely logical, philosophical reasoning. (that means no inference of faith, deity, mysticism, or other irrational reasoning), are remarkably similar to those that are consistent with Christianity, and 7 of out of the Ten commandments. The first three of the Ten Commandments address reverence toward God.

[Fester Chugabrew]

Well, what I really want to know, scientifically of course, is how many of McNamara's bricks were discarded, and how thick is each one.

[muawiyah]

I still have several hundred of them. They are standard facing bricks. Of course MacNamara being MacNamara he had a custom beige sand topcoat baked on. It's tended to fall off over the years.

I, and many of my neighbors, have enjoyed them immensely ~ frequently around the 4th of July ~

[jec41]

You know what else I find interesting, This! Morality, values, virtues, and ethics, that are determined to be beneficial to life and happiness, and are derived from purely logical, philosophical reasoning. (that means no inference of faith, deity, mysticism, or other irrational reasoning), are remarkably similar to those that are consistent with Christianity, and 7 of out of the Ten commandments. The first three of the Ten Commandments address reverence toward God.

Do they apply to everyone, every time, and everywhere. Or to just someone, sometimes, and somewhere. Or can you observe these things and the opposite.

[Conservative Texan Mom]

(Intelligent design fits objective reality handily from both an inductive and deductive standpoint. It takes a philosophy of some kind to explain it away. Let an evolutionist fill in the blank: "The presence of organized matter performing specific functions is best explained by . . ."

They do not have an answer. They pretend such an answer resides outside the realm of science altogether. To a degree it resides outside the realm of absolute certitude in this life. So do many other things science contends with. Science does not even know how many rubber bands are manually discarded each year. I hardly think it capable of reconstructing genetic history on the basis of morphological similarities.)




Is this the part where someone says, "evolution doesn't address this"?

[Fester Chugabrew]

Don't care to make you dig something up, and don't want to pin you into some kind of corner. I just don't think the distinction between natural and supernatural is scientifically useful because it cannot be scientifically determined. I do not consider it unnatural, or supernatural, for intelligent design to take place on any scale, even a scale beyond my meager understanding. Intelligence and design are natural things, AFAIK.

[Central Scrutiniser]

[Fester Chugabrew]

Is this the part where someone says, "evolution doesn't address this"?

Yes, and by default. This is the part where evolution throws up it's hands and says "We cannot know, and we do not want to know." But it still wants to have a front row seat in public schools and by law exclude any other suggestions.

[betty boop]

either Genesis is 100% factual, or God Lied

Oh, thanks King Prout, for clearing that problem up for me! Yet notwithstanding your having done so, may I say this particular line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me at all in the first place?

How could any Christian, of whatever denomination, say that our God on Whom salvation absolutely depends, "lies???" This makes no sense to me at all. FWIW.

*shrugs*

Thanks for the excellent conversation, KP.

[ml1954]

I just don't think the distinction between natural and supernatural is scientifically useful because it cannot be scientifically determined.

So how is it determined?

[andysandmikesmom]

Sounds like you have a place full of critters...sounds like a lot of hard work, but also sounds like a lot of fun...I love critters all around, so what you describe sounds heavenly...

[Fester Chugabrew]

Natural law is ingrained, albeit darkly, in the hearts of all people. So is religion. Science takes second place, though certain people would like to think otherwise.

[jec41]

At bottom, science is ill fit to determine whether everything is supernatural or not. Right? Or have you come across the scientific method for determining what is or is not supernatural?

What is better fit than science to determine this and how would it do so? The method of science was specifically designed to determine the difference between faith and belief and fact. Before the scientific method everything was faith and belief.

[muawiyah]

The basic Genesis story predates the existence of the Hebrews anyway. It's all "Antedeluvian" (in the old Biblical dating scheme) for one thing, and with the whole world destroyed, it's really hard to go back and secure adequate witnesses.

[jec41]

The presence of organized matter performing specific functions is argued by anyone of opinion.

[jec41]

Don't care to make you dig something up, and don't want to pin you into some kind of corner. I just don't think the distinction between natural and supernatural is scientifically useful because it cannot be scientifically determined. I do not consider it unnatural, or supernatural, for intelligent design to take place on any scale, even a scale beyond my meager understanding. Intelligence and design are natural things, AFAIK.

It has already been defined and determined. One is fact and one is faith and belief. It is adhered too by both philosophy and science.

[betty boop]

If true then Darwin was an ID'er.. You know intelligent design.. before it was called that.

That's exactly how I read the statement, hosepipe! LOLOL!!!

Here's a simple question on this theme: How did a "simple beginning" give rise to the fascinating multiplicity of what we observe with our own eyes every day in the world around us?

I conjecture even Darwin did't have the last word on that question, let along imagine that he did to begin with.

I imagine Darwin was a creature of his age. Probably as honest as they come, under the local conditions then acknowledged by the contemporary cognoscienti....

Am sleepy. Must go to bed. Good night, dear hosepipe!!! And pleasant dreams!!!

[hosepipe]

[ either Genesis is 100% factual, or God Lied ]

Or a range of other options like the reader missed something, misunderstood something, is dogma tied, or is metaphor challenged.. etc...

[Conservative Texan Mom]

I sent you another Freepmail.

I feel like being here is a miracle. We really wanted to get out of the city. My son just turned 12. we felt like we needed to do it now, or he wouldn't associate farm life with his childhood. I know that all kinds of hilly billy things get said about Arkansas, but it is gorgeous here! We have seasons, mountains, and critters. Financially, it made no sense to move here because my husband's business was well rooted and thriving in Baytown(just outside of Houston, but it all runs together). Moving to a rural area has been a leap of faith, but it's all working out very well so far. We're very glad we did it. I have to admit though, after hearing some stories from some of the locals, some of the rumors are true.

The Freepmail tells you about a friend of mine that passed. She was a catalyst for our move somewhat. We'd been talking about it, but her passing made us realize that you've got to make the most of the time you've got, however long that is. We really wanted this for our family!