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What is the FairTax?
Economic Freedom Coalition . Org ^ | current | Herman Cain

Posted on 04/04/2006 2:17:28 PM PDT by Eaglewatcher

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The motives of people who oppose the FairTax must be examined. Are they just protectiong thier personal loop hole?
1 posted on 04/04/2006 2:17:30 PM PDT by Eaglewatcher
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To: Eaglewatcher

I just finished Boortz and Linder's book several weeks ago. I'm definitely for the FairTax.


2 posted on 04/04/2006 2:23:07 PM PDT by Born Conservative (Chronic Positivity - http://jsher.livejournal.com/)
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To: Born Conservative
What is the Fair Tax?


3 posted on 04/04/2006 2:25:39 PM PDT by Shalom Israel (Pray for the Peace of Jerusalem.)
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To: Eaglewatcher

No one in their right mind would oppose this idea, Unless, of course, it is for nefarious reasons.

ABOLISH THE I.R.S. NOW!!


4 posted on 04/04/2006 2:27:13 PM PDT by Pragmatic Warrior (.....Grow your own dope. Plant a liberal!!)
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To: Eaglewatcher

Oppose? No. Think its a pipedream with the dishonest powerbrokers in DC? Absolutely.


5 posted on 04/04/2006 2:27:20 PM PDT by Amalie (FREEDOM had NEVER been another word for nothing left to lose...)
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To: Eaglewatcher

My main concern with the FairTax and taxes like it: In short order, some Democrap will institute a NEW income tax "just on the rich." Of course, that's how the original income tax was sold. In short order, it will then be the same thing as our current income tax, and we will simply have TWO massive federal tax systems...


6 posted on 04/04/2006 2:27:56 PM PDT by piytar
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To: piytar
In short order, it will then be the same thing as our current income tax, and we will simply have TWO massive federal tax systems...

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

7 posted on 04/04/2006 2:30:12 PM PDT by Shalom Israel (I don't WANNA be like Canada, thanks.)
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To: Eaglewatcher

"Are they just protectiong thier personal loop hole?"
Nope. Existing already taxed money [cash, savings accounts, Roths] which under the present tax regime can be spent without income taxation, and with minimum [or no] sales taxation, will become liable to 20+% sales tax under this so-called "fair tax" system. Double taxation is not fair in any sense, so to avoid it one would need to up-index by decree all aftertax money at the moment of transition.


8 posted on 04/04/2006 2:31:05 PM PDT by GSlob
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To: Eaglewatcher
If, as a business owner or farmer, you buy something for strictly business purposes (not for personal consumption), you pay no FairTax.

There's the main problem with the idea right there. One of the worst features of the present tax system is the ability of some people to shelter their income using various legal pretenses. This "Fair" Tax would preserve and enshrine that basic concept.

Everybody needs to pay. Everybody.

9 posted on 04/04/2006 2:41:02 PM PDT by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: Eaglewatcher
Are they just protectiong thier personal loop hole?

Yes. It really is that obvious.

10 posted on 04/04/2006 2:43:10 PM PDT by Dead Corpse (I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.)
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To: Eaglewatcher; Taxman; pigdog; Principled; EternalVigilance; rwrcpa1; phil_will1; kevkrom; ...
A Taxreform bump for you all.

If anyone would like to be added to this ping list let me know.

John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25) offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and SS/Medicare payroll taxes outright and replace them with with a national retail sales tax administered by the states.

H.R.25,S.25
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer for additional information:


11 posted on 04/04/2006 2:43:13 PM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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To: Eaglewatcher

Bingo... They all should like a bunch of raging liberals. Furthermore, they lack all the facts, and become non logical. Oh and then they will BS you that they have read the book. If they did, then they would not be saying what they are saying. Its just that easy.


12 posted on 04/04/2006 2:43:39 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: piytar

Well then the fair tax would go away. The way the proposal is written is that you can only have one, and not both.


13 posted on 04/04/2006 2:45:24 PM PDT by Sprite518
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To: Eaglewatcher
The motives of people who oppose the FairTax must be examined. Are they just protectiong thier personal loop hole?

No. I do not approve of the fair tax because it is just a silly shifting game. Oh look I'm paying out of my left pocket instead of my right pocket.

A fair tax would be an equal tax where every one is treated equally under the law and is given the same tax bill. How one arranges one financial affairs, should have no bearing on ones tax status. Should one freedom of speech, be dependent on the amount one has to say?

Equal citizens should get an equal tax bill.

14 posted on 04/04/2006 2:49:43 PM PDT by Mark was here (How can they be called "Homeless" if their home is a field?.)
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To: piytar

My main concern with the FairTax and taxes like it: In short order, some Democrap will institute a NEW income tax "just on the rich."

Intersting that they have not managed to do so over the objections of the American people in the 100yrs of income taxes we have had. This nation funded itself on consumption taxes prior to the income tax, a dual tax system, even though such has been floated numerous time over the last century, has never gotten onto a launch pad much less enacted into law.

One thing is for certain, to even have get to the point of replacing the income tax system with a retail consumption tax will require the full support of the American electorate, it isn't going to happen any other way. To re-instate an income tax ontop of a national retail sales tax is not something that will fly in any near future scenario. It is a political loser with the American people and always has been. You very objection to such a notion is a demonstration of how deep the objection runs, get rid of the IRS by turning tax collection over to the states through a retail sales tax system, destroyu the income tax system infra-structure as is required by the legislation, and there will be no turning around to get a national income tax back.

Fool us once has already been done, second time with the experience of the IRS and AMT fresh in the electorate's minds guarantees no income tax system will be ventured anytime soon. In fact the push will be all to the wall for prohibition of income taxation and repeal of the 16th amendment once the income tax is replaced with a viable alternative in the from of retail sales taxes.

15 posted on 04/04/2006 2:54:42 PM PDT by ancient_geezer (Don't reform it, Replace it.)
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To: Shalom Israel
The fairtaxers (aka farttaxers in my lexicon) wish the for the tax system to include those who now do not file a return (criminal aliens and individuals who work for themselves) they also wish to tax the retirement savings and investments of the Boomer generation that have been set aside post income tax with the intent that spending it in the future would not have a tax consequence. But the big thing they all seem to desire so much is the "prebate" or what also is know as a BIG (basic income guaranty) that is the precursor for a communistic society.

It is important that individuals and aliens file a tax return and pay their share (notice I did not write "fair" as fair is not a legal term of art but only subjective) but fix the alien problem first and apply the law to individuals before changing the tax code.

The unintended consequence of this however is most likely a phasing in of a national sales tax, say, a few percent to pay down the WOT debt or to pay for prescription drugs. Because of the generational consequences of changing provisions for trusts and the like in the present code, the income tax will be retained. We will end up with an additional layer of taxation. We can't let it happen.

16 posted on 04/04/2006 3:03:34 PM PDT by Final Authority
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To: Shalom Israel; piytar
You're both right as far as it goes.

However, one of the predicates of the FairTax is an amendment to the US Constitution abolishing the Income Tax.

Whether that can be done or not is another question. Somebody will have to do a good job selling this tax (ice to Eskimos?) to the American people. I will support any system that abolishes the Income Tax. On the one hand, the FairTax is the only proposition on the table that does that and on the other is far superior to any income tax.

Of course increasing tarrifs and duties on imported goods isn't a bad way to raise revenue and protect certain critical sectors of the economy from ruin or outsourcing.

17 posted on 04/04/2006 3:17:26 PM PDT by The Shootist
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To: Eaglewatcher
What is a fair tax? It's one that wouldn't get the time of day if it was called tax cuts for those who don't have to spend every dollar they make to survive.

A fair tax is one that accompanies a lower cost of government and is not passed on to future generations. That one has not surfaced yet.

18 posted on 04/04/2006 3:24:24 PM PDT by ex-snook (John 17 - So that they may be one just as we are one.)
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To: The Shootist
You're both right as far as it goes. However, one of the predicates of the FairTax is an amendment to the US Constitution abolishing the Income Tax.

That's the part that won't go through. They'll claim to abolish it in phases, since of course they can't go cold turkey... but once both systems are in place side-by-side, that's the way it will stay.

19 posted on 04/04/2006 3:43:26 PM PDT by Shalom Israel (I don't WANNA be like Canada, thanks.)
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To: Shalom Israel

They never claim that the FairTax will outright REDUCE taxes. However, there will be a more fair and equitable distribution of the tax burden, and theoretically, will lure businesses that have moved out of the US back INTO the US. Of course, it hasn't been tried yet, but it sure sounds a helluva lot better than what we have now.


20 posted on 04/04/2006 4:06:55 PM PDT by Born Conservative (Chronic Positivity - http://jsher.livejournal.com/)
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