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To: DaveLoneRanger
I disagree with Provine. I am like him an atheist; but clearly that does not follow from espousal of evolution as the origin of species, since there are literally millions of people who are not atheists or agnostics and do espouse evolution. Furthermore, I disagree that atheism implies no foundation for ethics, no meaning for life, and no free will. Surprise, surprise: not all atheist biological scientists agree on everything. If you want a more philosophically informed and thoughtful view than Provine's, I recommend Dennett's 'Darwin's Dangerous Idea'. On the other hand, if you just want to tar all atheists with the same broad brush, by all means continue to quote him.

(Quoting Paul Davies) Unfortunately, “meaning” sounds perilously close to purpose, an utterly taboo subject in biology.

It's not utterly taboo; that's hyperbole. When you say the purpose of the blind gut of the rabbit is to provide an environment for bacteria to digest cellulose, it's pedantry to quibble about using the word 'purpose' rather than 'function' or 'role'.

But isn't it circular reasoning to say we're intelligent because we thought to call ourselves intelligent?

No, it's just a definition of intelligence. It would be circular to treat it as a deduction.

. You don't get order out of non-order without the addition of intelligence. It's just simple fact.

No, it's completely false. What about snowflakes? What about crystals? One of my research areas in the recent past has been the development of order from disorder in ionic crystals, experimentally and by random Monte-Carlo simulations. It happens, and we understand why it happens. There is no thermodynamic objection to a local decrease in entropy, as long as the overall entropy increases.

How does evolution account for the adding of memory and intelligence in an infant?

It doesn't. Babies don't evolve from single cells, they develop from single cells. The memory and intelligence develop as a result of deterministic physical processes from a complex of biomolecules in a simple system.

There's a big difference in looking at a quote, thinking "that will be useful to lob back at him someday!" and tucking it away in your quiver for future use, versus me taking one quote off a post, thumb-tacking it to a board amongst dozens of other similar quotes, and then walking away.

It's quite clear to me you see a distinction. I don't see the distinction, and given our past interactions, I don't really understand why you think your taking offense should be anything that particularly perturbs me. Clearly, if we share any common ground, it's mostly a mutual dislike.

However, if your 'board' is something you've walked away from, demonstrate that by taking down any quotes from me on it. I will then be happy to reciprocate by giving weight to your improved recent behavior.

886 posted on 03/22/2006 7:35:13 AM PST by Right Wing Professor
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