Thank you for helping me understand (I think). At any rate, thank you for your patience in trying to help me understand your question. From what I can tell, you are asking if there is some sort of virtue intrinsic in suffering? The answer would be "no." The concept of justice is a little different, I believe. Justice demands a payment for an infraction, whether it be a traffic ticket, robbing someone, or cosmic treason against the Creator. The universal cry of "HE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH THAT! shows that the concept of justice is "hard wired" into our beings. Then the question is how does that whole concept fit into the claims of Xty. If justice demands a penalty, the question then becomes what punishment is appropriate for "sin." The biblical claim is that it is far more serious than we think, far more henious and despicable than we admit even when we know it. THAT is what Christians talk about "paying" for our sins on the cross. Actually, the one of the last vocalizations recorded of Jesus on the cross was "It is finished" contained in a single Gk word "tetelestai(it may have been a translation of Aramaic). The word was actually a commercial term and means "Paid in full" and is what a merchant would expect to see on the bottom of a receipt for moneys paid.
The idea of one person substituting for another is at the core of the Xn message. The claim, as preposterous as it may sound, is that Jesus sucked down evil itself and died under its eternal curse, so that an eternal punishment was executed in Him.
This does not necessarily imply value in suffering itself, but hearkens more to the idea of the satisfaction of justice. Suffering only has value in relation to being an appropriate punishment for a moral evil.
I am only stating the position from the perspective of your question. The "problem of pain" itself has been discussed more fully in other venues.
Thank you again for your polite and gracious interaction.
And this is also where we disagree:
You say that "justice demands a penalty"; I on the other hand think that "justice demands a penalty for the real culprit".
I agree with you that justice is hardwired into our brains (as it's to be expected with social animals) but what you describe isn't justice. It's simply seeking an outlet for ones anger after having been wronged: somebody has to serve as the lightning rod, ideally this should be the real culprit but if he isn't at hand somebody else will do just as well.
The idea of one person substituting for another is at the core of the Xn message. The claim, as preposterous as it may sound, is that Jesus sucked down evil itself and died under its eternal curse, so that an eternal punishment was executed in Him.
OK, this may well be what most Christian think but to me it makes absolutely no sense. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.
Nice summary.