Posted on 02/12/2006 10:32:27 AM PST by PatrickHenry
""There's no boat on Mt. Ararat.""
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/the_remains_of_noahs_ark.html
3 seconds on Google and I see a boat on Mr. Ararat.
Christianity is uniquely defined by the bible.
If the foundational stories of the bible are shown to be MYTH, then that means they are not factual.
They becomes Aesop's fables or Grimm's fairy tales.
(The DNA Herding God says to himself: "Hmmmmm, think I'll plant a living spirit in that upright ape over there, but just to keep 'em really guessing I'll make up a story about a garden to pass on down the line." Wonder why He didn't just decide to write, "Decided to plant a living spirit in that upright ape over there.")
Not only is this God an absentee landlord, but he's also a bit capricious.
I'll not be able to respond again until later this evening. See ya. Gotta go to church (since I'm the pastor.....they expect those things...:>)
Write a research paper for me on the difference between "foolish" and :"stupid", then we'll talk. I'll award extra points if you keep in mind the ancient Hebraic definition of the "fool".
God doesn't need gravity to move the earth around the sun or the moon around the earth, but He does use gravity to do just that. (I believe that, BTW, even though gravity isn't in the Bible.) Just as He did use evolution to bring forth you and I from the "dust" of pre-existing living things and raise us to a level where we can worship Him.
I would disagree. I think that Dawkins' point was that before Darwin, being an atheist was not intellectually fulfilling because intellectual honesty demanded an explaination for the diversity of life as we observe it, and atheism denied any resort to God.
To the science of the time, it was a daunting task and no other area of science posed anywhere near such a glaring, and then-unanswered, challenge. Far from being an answer to "everything that the theist points to God for," evolution through natural selection provided the answer to the one big, giant, glaring, obvious thing that the atheist had no answer for at that time.
That's been completely debunked. It's a hoax.
http://skepdic.com/noahsark.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/09/0920_040920_noahs_ark.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ark-hoax/jammal.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/Dew/Dew7/D7-AGreatChristianScam.html
http://www.tentmaker.org/WAR/index.html
Email me your photos from Mt. Ararat when you get there.
Her memorial service was today.
Because I'm an American, of course, and as entitled to all the benefits this great country has to offer as any other man. The USA is much more, so very much more than simply some supposed "underlying Christian culture." And, in fact, there are even parts of this supposed "underlying Christian culture" which are not incompatible with my preferences and philosophies. And those that are offensive... well, the law in the USA is designed to protect people like me from the imposition of those Christian things. You can feel free to do them, I can feel free to ignore them (so long as neither of us is breaking the law.)
"Email me your photos from Mt. Ararat when you get there."
Talk about lame evasions. Your inability to provide an argument is duly noted... again.
You SURE!.. Everything just might NOT add up.. even in this paradigm.. Example: geometry is about shape.. Just maybe shape is a second reality.. And mathematics about shape is quantifing a second reality.. To wit: Mathematics is measureing a dream.. in a dream..
Could be.. at least in my primitive mind.. Does 2 + 2 = 4 ?.. yes.. in this paradigm, always, unless you're wrong..
But are we limited to this paradigm?.. even now?.. Could be some are and some are not.. Is shape an ideology?.. I say it is.. a perception.. To wit: square might be square at all.. only in this paradigm is it square.. a second reality..
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/the_remains_of_noahs_ark.html
3 seconds on Google and I see a boat on Mr. Ararat.
Three *more* seconds on Google and you'd have found that it's merely wishful thinking:
Claim CH503:
Noah's ark has been found at the Durupinar site near Dogubayazit, Turkey. A symmetrical streamlined stone structure near there has the right dimensions, and interior structure and symmetrically arranged traces of metal are consistent with the ark. Also, anchor stones have been found near there.Source:
Fasold, David, 1988. The Ark of Noah, New York: Knightsbridge Publishing.
Wyatt, R. E., 1989. Discovered - Noah's Ark. Nashville, TN: World Bible Society. Also, Wyatt, R. E., 1994. "Discovered - Noah's Ark: Video documentary of research and field work". Wyatt Archaeological Research, 713 Lambert Drive, Nashville, TN, 37220.Response:
- The metal traces that were interpreted as iron brackets were actually goethite, a hydrated iron oxide. This mineral was thoroughly mixed with clay, calcite, quartz, and anthophyllite particles, and it showed a large amount of chemical variability across the sample. Neither of these properties would occur in smelted iron.
The purported walls of the ark are limonite concentrations. Their boatlike shape is consistent with an eroded doubly plunging syncline. The stresses of such folding commonly cause fractures that cut across the layers. Water moving through these fractures would have produced the limonite concentrations that were interpreted as dividing walls.
In short, the structure is consistent with the following geological history:
- Rocks formed when sediments eroded from nearby volcanic rocks and were compacted.
- These layers were folded into a doubly plunging syncline.
- A marine sea eroded a channel into the rocks and deposited fossiliferous limestone in it.
- The land was uplifted, and erosion removed most of the limestone and exposed the fold.
- A landslide carried blocks of rock and mud around the synclinal structure.
This interpretation is consistent with the structure itself and with the surrounding geology (Collins and Fasold 1996).
- No fossilized wood or traces of wood, reed, or elemental carbon were found associated with the structure (Collins and Fasold 1996).
- The Durupinar site is incompatible with the biblical account. Genesis 8:4-6 says the flood waters receded for two and a half months after the ark landed before other mountaintops became visible. The Durupinar site is almost 10,000 feet lower than the summit of nearby Agri Dagh. Agri Dagh would have been visible above water even before the ark landed (Standish and Standish 1999, 236).
The Bible describes a rectangular ark. Wyatt's ark is boat-shaped and about 50 percent wider than the dimensions given in the Bible (Standish and Standish 1999, 106, 230-231).Links:
Collins, L. G. and D. F. Fasold, 1996. Bogus "Noah's Ark" from Turkey exposed as a common geologic structure. Journal of Geoscience Education 44(4): 439-444. http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/bogus.htmlReferences:
- Collins and Fasold, 1996. (see above)
- Standish and Standish, 1999. (see below)
Further Reading:
Bailey, Lloyd, 1989. Noah: The Person and the Story in History and Tradition. Columbia, SC: University of South Carolina Press.
Standish, Russell R. and Colin D. Standish, 1999. Holy Relics or Revelation. Rapidan, VA: Hartland Publications, pp. 226-251
"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. "-- Ecclesiastes 3:18-19
We have no preeminence over beasts WHERE DEATH IS CONCERNED.
This is what Solomon was talking about in his depressed state.
He didn't say we were beasts, he was lamenting that men don't see their vulnerable state under the Fall -- that we, like the beasts, will also die.
Solomon's depressives point toward the need of the new Covenant and the Messianic age, when Christ overcame (sin and) death, promising same to His followers.
I'll defer to you as the clear expert on such matters, as well as the question of which condition is most responsible for your frequent falsehoods about us.
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