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To: PatrickHenry; RunningWolf
These are Coyoteman's definitions:

Theory: a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of circumstances to explain a specific set of phenomena; "theories can incorporate facts and laws and tested hypotheses." Addendum: "Theories do not grow up to be laws. Theories explain laws." (Courtesy of VadeRetro.)

Websters, Second College Edition, New World Dictionary, 1968. Before word meaning were changed to fit your ideals

the-o-ry = 1. a speculative orig., a mental viewing; contemplation 2. a speculative idea or plan as to how something might be done 3. a systematic statement of principles involved [ the theory of equations in mathematics] 4. a formulation of apparent relationships of underlying principles of certain observed phenomena which has been verified to some degree. 5. that branch of an art or science consisting in a knowledge of its principles and methods rather than in its practice pure, as opposed to applied, science etc. 6. popularly, a mere conjecture, or guess.
Number 4, apparent also means = appearing ( but not necessarily ) real or true. Number 5. evolution has no visible proof so it does work in the principle area. A theory is not always well substantiated, as with the theory of evolution.

These are Coyoteman's definitions

Dogma: a religious doctrine that is proclaimed as true without proof.

Websters, Second College Edition, New World Dictionary, 1968. Before word meaning were changed to fit your ideals.

dog-ma = an opinion that which one believes, in LL. (Ec.), a decree, order < Gr. dogma, opinion, judgment < dokein, to seem: see DOCTOR 1. a doctrine: tenet; belief 2. doctrines, tenets, or beliefs collectively 3. a positive, arrogant assertion of opinion 4. Theol. a doctrine or body of doctrines formally and authoritatively affirmed.
doctrine 1. something taught; teachings 2. something taught as the principles or creed of a religion, political party, etc.; tenet or tenets; belief ; dogma 3. rule, theory, or principle of law 4. an official statement of a nation's policy, esp. toward other nations.
SYN.-doctrine refers to a theory based on carefully worked out principles and taught or advocated by its adherents [ scientific or social doctrines] dogma refers to a belief or doctrine that is handed down by authority as true and indisputable, and often connotes arbitrariness, arrogance, etc. tenet emphasizes the maintenance or defense, rather that the teaching, of a theory or principle.

These are Coyoteman's definitions:

Hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was accepted in chemical practices"

Websters, Second College Edition, New World Dictionary, 1968. Before word meaning were changed to fit your ideals.

hy-poth-e-sis = groundwork, foundation, supposition < hypotithenai, to place under < hypo-, under + lithenai to place: an unproved theory, proposition, supposition etc. tentatively accepted to explain certain facts or ( working hypothesis ) to provide a basis for further investigation, argument, etc -- SYN. see theory.

These are Coyoteman's definitions:

Faith: Belief in the first proposition (tooth fairy) requires faith, which is belief in something for which there is no evidence or logical proof.

Websters, Second College Edition, New World Dictionary, 1968. Before word meaning were changed to fit your ideals.

faith = 1. unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence 2. unquestioning belief in God, religious tenets, etc. 3. a religion or a system of religious beliefs 4. anything believed 5. complete trust, confidence or reliance 6. allegiance to some person or thing; (evolution) FR-evolutionist are dogmatic about the evolutionary theories. The evolutionary hypothesis is the basis for their faith in speculative assumptions of misinterpretation of observations. Their belief is based on facts and data which has been falsified. Time the talisman of evolution is the only way to make the model work.

My hypothesis is that I guess that the theory is based on speculation and assumption through observation with a presumptive opinion which gives an impression of reason, like it had any logical proof. It may be knowledge to understand assumptions even though they are speculative. I am sure your confidence and faith in your belief of the theory is all the reason you feel dogmatic about it.

So I will use the real meaning of the words when discussing this polemic of creation vs evolution. I will not be malign as some FR-evolutionist like to be in their ortund way during their onslaught of flamming. I know that creation is veritable it does not perpetrate tripe to enhance its malleable theory. Spurious an evanescent it is.

FR-evolutionist are Dogmatic in their opinions on the belief by faith their religion. It has been dilligently scrutinized by erudite men and proved spurious and desultory.
64 posted on 02/01/2006 10:18:15 PM PST by Creationist (If the earth is old show me your proof. Salvation from the judgment of your sins is free.)
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To: Creationist
Bump to you Creationist. I am very fatigued here after a long day at work.

I did not read your whole post there, but I think I understand what you are saying on several levels.

I need to address a thing here. I do not know how old the world is or the universe either. In a nutshell, I see it as all a conscious expression of his being (not in the atheist mocking illustrations of angels pushing electrons around).

I need to get down in writing where I come from on these topics (because I spend a lot of time here) sometime soon rather than always having a reactionary response.

I think Coyote is sincere, has integrity as he comes to the debates, and Ill give PH the same due (perhaps undeserved).

But what I will respond to here is the PH thread.

She (I think) titles her thread as Standard Definitions for Science Threads. And then in the first paragraph the first two sentences she contradicts herself, and reveals both her bias and the need to control the playing field with science-literate freepers, and science threads for she often 'pings the list' to questionable scientific threads. Then too the response of her 'ping list' is also very questionably scientific.

And then to the 3rd paragraph. The problem with that is they always want to answer the larger unknowns and in the 'science class' and dis-include all others from the 'science class' /sarc>

Hang in there

Wolf
65 posted on 02/01/2006 11:33:12 PM PST by RunningWolf (Vet US Army Air Cav 1975)
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To: Creationist; PatrickHenry
"Before word meaning were changed to fit your ideals"

The definitions of the words used in scientific endeavors have not changed, nor can they change. It's not logical to allow it. In general, a dictionary is not a source for precise scientific definitions. The 3rd draft's definitions of scientific word's are good.

Merriam Webster's Collegiate is preferable to Websters, Second College Edition, New World Dictionary. Even so, it fails to give an accurate scientific definition of the term theory, as your's does. Also, the meanings of words in real dictionaries do not change, including those in Websters, Second College Edition, New World Dictionary.

"SYN.-doctrine refers to a theory based on carefully worked out principles and taught or advocated by its adherents [ scientific or social doctrines]"

Scientific theory is not doctrine. The words are not interchangeable and are not synonymous.

"So I will use the real meaning of the words when discussing this polemic of creation vs evolution."

Naturally! Failing to adhere to the truth of the matter is an inherent requirement, when the objective is to obfuscate to promote falsehoods. ie.
"FR-evolutionist are Dogmatic in their opinions on the belief by faith their religion. It has been dilligently scrutinized by erudite men and proved spurious and desultory."

67 posted on 02/02/2006 5:08:54 PM PST by spunkets
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