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To: js1138

The problem is the underlying assumption of atheism that exists in evolution as it is currently taught. I don't know how many times I've heard evolution proponents argue that ID can be taught in the religious studies department but not in the science department. Then, it turns out that the chairman of the religious studies department at this Kansas school is an atheist who wants to create a class in his department to mock and ridicule ID'ers.

So you can have a presence among us. We just can't have a presence among you.

Is macro-evolution true? Maybe. There's some evidence for it. But **IF** it is true, does that mean it occurred for purely naturalistic reasons or did God guide it, or at least set it in motion?

Or to put it another way: Does God have anything at all to do with how we got here? The fundamentalist evolutionist position is that He didn't. That evolution just happened to occur. Even if God exists, it still just happened to occur. He had nothing whatsoever to do with it. It would have occurred exactly the same way whether He exists or not.

If that's one's position, fine. We're all entitled to our opinion. But you can't simultaneously argue that position and then argue that purely naturalistic evolution isn't anti-Christian. A central tenet of Christianity is that we're children of God, created in His image, not some random product of processess He had nothing to do with.

Yes, the Catholic hierarchy accepts evolutionary theory. They also once taught that the earth is the center of the universe, a non-Biblical position which was the prevailing view of the "enlightened" at the time they adopted it.

This isn't an easy issue to deal with. But a little humility would help ease things. I don't claim to have all the answers. But I don't think science has always assumed that God is irrelevant to the universe's existence. Yet, we're told that to even suggest that an outside force greater than man had something to do with the order we see in the universe is "unscientific" and thus banned from the science class. Even if it's TRUE, it would have to be banned, which would seem to be a paradox. It establishes rules for science which would guarantee that it can't find the truth if God exists. It can only be accurate if He doesn't exist.

Would you find it outrageous if, in science classes, it was suggested that A) there are alternative explanations for the evidence put forth for evolution and B) science can neither prove nor disprove God's existence, so He MAY be necessary for the universe and science itself to exist?


383 posted on 11/30/2005 11:56:10 AM PST by puroresu (Conservatism is an observation; Liberalism is an ideology)
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To: puroresu

ID has nothing to do with religion. Folks have testified under oath to this effect. Mocking ID is not mocking religion.


385 posted on 11/30/2005 11:58:53 AM PST by js1138 (Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)
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To: puroresu

Fine post. Thanks.


387 posted on 11/30/2005 12:02:45 PM PST by cornelis
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To: puroresu
Would you find it outrageous if, in science classes, it was suggested that... science can neither prove nor disprove God's existence, so He MAY be necessary for the universe and science itself to exist?

You're correct that science cannot address supernatural causes, and if I understand your suggestion in this paragraph I agree with you. Students should learn the definition of science, which will include understanding that it does not address any attributes of supernatural forces whatsoever.

That is what you're suggesting, correct? Students learning that science does not include deities in its scope?
438 posted on 11/30/2005 1:36:25 PM PST by aNYCguy
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