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To: Bigh4u2
ID will be hard to prove unless there is a 'revelation' in the scientific world.

The best term for that relevation, I think, would be data.

If ID proponents are serious, they must do research and produce data---Just like the scientists.

29 posted on 11/17/2005 12:01:21 PM PST by Rudder
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To: Rudder

"The best term for that relevation, I think, would be data."

Seems to be they only way you could have a 'revelation'.

I agree.


38 posted on 11/17/2005 12:07:47 PM PST by Bigh4u2 (Denial is the first requirement to be a liberal)
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To: Rudder
The best term for that relevation, I think, would be data.

No, The best term for it would, in fact, be revelation.

If ID proponents are serious, they must do research and produce data---Just like the scientists.

So, I guess none of these guys are scientists:

1. Michael Behe, "Darwin's Black Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution" (1996).

2. Robert W. Faid, American Nuclear Society, Nuclear Scientist, author of A Scientific Approach to Christianity.

3. Michael Denton, medical doctor and molecular biologist, , "Evolution: A Theory in Crisis" (1985).

4. Francis Hitching, "The Neck of the Giraffe: Where Darwin Went Wrong" (1982).

5. Mae-Wan Ho and Peter Saunders, "Beyond Neo-Darwinism" (1984).

6. Soren Lovtrup, "Darwinism: Refutation of a Myth" (1987).

7. Milton R., "The Facts of Life: Shattering the Myth of Darwinism", Fourth Estate, London, 1992.

8. Rodney Stark, Professor of Social Sciences at Baylor University, see Fact, Fable, and Darwin.

9. Gordon Rattray Taylor, "The Great Evolution Mystery" (1983).

The following scientists (#'s 10-47) stated that "a critical re-evaluation of Darwinism is both necessary and possible" as found at "http://www.apologetics.org/news/adhoc.html":

10. ANDREW BOCARSLY, Ph.D. Chemistry, Princeton University

11. HENRY F. SCHAEFER III, Ph. D. Quantum Computational Chemistry, University of Georgia

12. ROBERT TINNIN, Ph.D Biology, Portland State University

13. BENJAMIN VOWELS, M.D. Dermatology, University of Pennsylvania

14. STEPHEN MEYER (Ph.D. in History & Philosophy of Science University of Cambridge), currently professor of philosophy at Whitworth College.

15. DAVID IVES, Ph.D, Biochemistry, Ohio State University

16. WILLIAM DEMBSKI, Ph.D. Philosophy (University of Illinois at Chicago), Ph.D. Mathematics (University of Chicago)

17. ROBERT KAITA, Ph.D. Plasma Physics, Princeton University

18. FRED SIGWORTH, Ph.D. Physiology, Yale Medical School

19. LEO ZACHARSKI, M.D. Medicine, Dartmouth Medical School

20. DAVID VAN DYKE, Ph. D. Chemistry, University of Pennsylvania

21. ROBERT JENKINS, Ph.D. Biology, Ithaca College

22. ROBERT C. KOONS, Ph.D. Philosophy, UT, Austin

23. GORDON C. MILLS, Ph.D., Biochemistry Emeritus, UT Medical Center, Galveston

24. DONALD D. HOFFMAN, Ph.D. Cognitive Science University of California, Irvine

25. ROBERT PRUD'HOMME, Ph. D. Chemical Engineering, Princeton University

26. ALVIN PLANTINGA, Ph.D. Philosophy, University of Notre Dame

27. GEORGE LEBO, Ph.D. Astronomy, University of Florida

28. JOHN FANTUZZO, Ph.D. Psychology in Education, University of Pennsylvania

29. WALTER BRADLEY, Ph.D. Chairman, Mechanical Engineering, Texas A & M University

30. DONALD L. EWERT, Ph.D. Molecular Biology, Director of Research Administration, Wistar Institute

31. DOUGLAS LAUFFENBERGER, Ph.D. Cell & Structural Biology, University of Illinois

32. JACK OMDAHL, Ph.D. Biochemistry, University of New Mexico

33. JOSEPH M. MELUCHAMP, Ph.D. Management Science, University of Alabama

34. KIRK LARSEN, Ph.D. Zoology, Miami University (Ohio)

35. PAUL CHIEN, Ph.D. Biology, University of San Francisco

36. WILLIAM SANDINE, Ph.D. Microbiology, Oregon State University

37. H. C. HlNRICHS, Ph. D. Physics, Linfield College

38. WILLIAM STUNTZ, J.D. Law Faculty, University of Virginia

39. CHRIS LITTLER, Ph.D. Physics, N.Texas State University

40. JOHN ANGUS CAMPBELL, Ph.D. Speech Communication, University of Washington

41. T. RICK IRVIN, Ph.D. Institute for Environmental Studies, Louisiana State University

42. DAVID WILCOX, Ph.D. Biology, Eastern College

43. STEPHEN FAWL, Ph.D. Chemistry, Napa Valley College

44. OTTO HELWEG, Ph.D. Civil Engineering, Memphis State University

45. J. GARY EDEN, Ph. D. Elect. & Computer Engineering, University of Illinois

46. H. KEITH MILLER, Ph.D. Biology (ret.), Capital University

47. JOHN COGDELL, Ph.D. Elect. & Computer Engineering, University of Texas, Austin

And others....

This post would be far too long to post the entire list. You can read the rest if you like. The list has 481 names on it and I suspect none of these people would appreciate anyone calling their research 'dumb'.
77 posted on 11/17/2005 12:50:12 PM PST by JamesP81
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