Posted on 08/02/2005 4:16:26 AM PDT by PatrickHenry
Many what?
Not biologists, and they're the only ones studying it.
None of the other crowd had produced one viable study despite having pnty of money to do so. The so-called Discovery Institute had discovered nothing. Neither the Moonies nr the Islamic Fundamentalists have done anything but yammer, and, of course, their motives might be considered sspect.
Yet you guys have no problem trying over and over again to link evolution to Marxism - which is ludicrous. Why the hypocrisy?
Could you point out exactly how fundies are different than the taliban? Don't try to bring up terrorism as fundies have engaged in a little bit of that at abortion clinics already. It just hasn't reached nearly the same scale.
"Bush can't be that stupid, can he?"
First and foremost...and like all politicians, Bush is one.
Ah, I see. And what made the response of "Wildhorsewhatever" any different than mine, that I could know you were not lumping me into your broad generalizations.
Sorry that your feelings got hurt.
I'm sure you are. I'm sitting here crying, wondering how I could avoid the abuse!
Oh, this is an internet forum? I can just close the page if I actually get my feelings hurt?
(If you are ACTUALLY worried about my feeling, don't worry ... I find these discussions to be great fun, and I hope no one is actually going away from these EVO/ID threads feeling miserable all day!)
You know that is BS right? The Theory of Evolution NOTHING to do with either of those. How did find a way to link those to evolution?
Moral Absolutes Ping.
I find this very, very good news.
Good for President Bush.
Freepmail me if you want/off this pinglist.
(Yesterday, I think, there was a thread entitled something like "Don't teach faith as though it were science". Well, we shouldn't teach science as though it has to be blindly believed. But that's what the folks who come unglued about mentioning ID want. A click of the heels and a stiff salute to Darwin.)
Ah, but it will be. Well, not evolution, but creationism -- and ID too, because ID is nothing but closeted creationism. Next round of Congressional elections, just watch as the MSM has fun with the issue. It's about all they have to try to make conservatives look like idiots (because we're right on every other issue), so they'll use it every chance they can get. Which is why some of us have been saying:
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"Then skip my posts like I skip yours."
Res ipsit loquitur
Which simply means Creation wasn't a miracle.
I know that evolution doesn't address the Big Bang, but those that adhere to the Biblical accounts of Man being created by God, would also have to tie in that God also created the heavens and the earth, which seems to contradict the Big Bang. While separate at one end of the argument (evolution) they are tied at the other.
Many ways. Sometimes supernaturally, sometimes in more normal ways.
Is it through natural processes?
It can be
Did He foresee the need for intervention prior to the creation of the universe and thus built His intervention into the "prgram?"
Quite possible
Please define "Christian" in your terms.
For me, Evagelicals are not the only Christians.
Definition of Intelligent Design from ARN.org:
Join The Free Speech on Evolution Campaign
You're not alone...
Over 400 Scientists Convinced by New Scientific Evidence That Darwinian Evolution is Deficient
The argument about whether Being is Being, or Being is God, and causation, is not new.
Those who are afraid that ID means 'religion' are ignorant of the past (not surprisingly).
I challenge you to look deeper into the philosophy of what you have been taught is science, and its roots.......that is IF you are really interested in learning about the truth.
The science you have been taught in class (you did take science in college, didn't you?) has political and philosophical underpinnings that you have not been taught.
Try to find out what they are.
"Nope. How does God intervene? Is it through natural processes? Did He foresee the need for intervention prior to the creation of the universe and thus built His intervention into the "prgram?""
Your ignorance of Scripture is now blaring. Throughout Scripture, God intervenes according to His good pleasure. He does not do so through "natural" processes which I take to mean processes which look natural to the naked eye. Take for one obvious example near the beginning of the book, the entire episode of the plagues, the flight from Egypt, the crossing of the Red Sea and so on. These events were obviously not "natural" and even Pharoah knew before it was over that they were not natural.
It just gets worse from there. History is taught in Scripture not as natural history, but an account of sustained divine intervention. If you read the Psalms and the minor Prophets, it goes even further, in that it attributes things like the weather to God's active intervention - and to whether or not man is obedient to His law or not. Then....obviously the New Testament miracles are not a natural part of any program. Water into wine, lepers healed spontaneously and instantly, resurrections of Lazarus and Jesus. Moreover, throughout Scripture believers are encouraged to pray, and Scripture teaches that prayer itself can be the intermediate cause by which God does something.
On the theological point, obviously God in some sense foresees all of this...He ordains both ends and means. He allows us the privilege of participating in some of those ends and means, and that is what we experience as human freedom comes in. That is why we experience that prayer does seem to "change things."
The worldview I have given a very brief sketch above is utterly incompatible with the evolutionary worldview.
Look, it's not skin off my back if you reject Scripture. But I am troubled with this mushy thinking that says you believe in Scripture and in evolution. At least Jefferson had the guts and intellectual honesty to throw away most of his Bible.
What I am looking for in this discussion is for people to take firm, resolute, consistent and well-thought out positions. That is lacking on this thread. When I was a grad student in philosophy many many years ago, I used to love to read Anthony Flew...he was a hardened atheist and a hardened anti-socialist. He was just the greatest in terms of rigor. I was (and am) a believer, so I didn't agree with his attacks on religion. But I always appreciated his rigor and his integrity. That is what I look for in serious thinkers. (Of course to make this more interesting is that Flew is now a theist...that is a whole nuther topic, though).
By studying, Jeff. Try it.
The problem is that the Creationists are going to start winning some these battles. Each win will convince them that they have a larger and larger grip on the republican party and they will be more and more aggressive in pushing their agenda.
That will scare off many voters who see Fundies gaining control of the country as a bad thing. Eventually breakthroughs in stem cell technology will start coming from Asia and people here will start wondering why we took a back seat to all of this.
Since the republican congress pretty much just pays lips service to fiscal conservatives anyway, many will just stay at home or even switch.
States like Florida and Georgia (9th biggest state and moving up) which have huge transplant populations will be lost to republicans.
Nice cop out. Make a proclamation and then refuse to back it up when challenged.
Are we being cynical today, bob? :)
Sorry........but I have much to do today.
God bless you.......God bless President Bush.........and God bless America! Land of the free (at least for some of us! :)
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