----And now, I'm leaving this conversation for a good conservative night's sleep.... :)----
NO! Don't go to sleep! Don't you realize what you'll wake up to in the morning???
And it's all Bush's faaaaaaaaauuuuuuuult!
-Dan
Posted on 07/27/2005 9:14:44 PM PDT by RWR8189
No!!!! NAFTA is lose-lose. America sends all our jobs to Mexico and China and Mexico and China send all their jobs to America. 24 million jobs were thrown overboard and drowned. LOL!
The sound and fury over Central American trade matters is quite odd. One would think they are a Celtic tiger or something, a bunch of Irish who have caught the perfect wave, except with 20 million folks rather than 5, ready to just kick butt, instead of a rather minor rounding error to NAFTA, a very minor rounding error. Symbolism is drowning out substance, and it isn't pretty. It's damn ugly in fact.
not necessarilly
NO! Don't go to sleep! Don't you realize what you'll wake up to in the morning???
And it's all Bush's faaaaaaaaauuuuuuuult!
-Dan
Americans are not world traveled as I am, and I suspect you are. I just got back from 6 weeks in China, where the people ask why we went downhill so fast.
Here is the perfunctory explanation of what exactly DR-CAFTA is and is not - really does not make it any easier for those countries to export to us, but makes it easier for us to export to them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAFTA
That's incorrect. See post #158.
Thanks for cleansing my typo as to "seekers." I hate when that happens. (I still need to work on my open and closed parentheses.)
While domestic prices are deflated from lower labor costs, a new bar is set for American labor itself. Americans run to purchase cheaper items and pay for it in other ways.
NAFTA has helped deflate wages in important industries and put us at the mercy of foreign nations. Once again, I maintain that our country can survive it, but it has hurt us. It is also a great risk to our national security. One example of this is that the largest national profit for Mexico is now the cash that Mexican workers in America send to Mexico.
I would say that there should be massive tariffs on countries that regulate foreign investment. No more Nafta when mexico barrs much if not all US ownership of capital. Ditto for Cafta. Ditto for China and a lot of other countries.
Free trade of goods is okay only when free flows of capital and investment are allowed also.
Bottomline, foreigners can easily invest here. The reverse is not true. So capital comes flowing in, which means a US trade deficit must occur to balance this out. Regulation of capital flows is just as damaging to trade in goods and services as any tariff would be.
That's a pretty weak example of how *AMERICANS* are supposedly being hurt by NAFTA.
And lets not forget that Mexican workers were sending a lot of money back to Mexico even before NAFTA.
Stick the finger in the dike one place, and it puts more pressure on it elsewhere. There is no coherent plan. Bush didn't want one. But he has got the message. Rove has told him it is time to tack. The Bush policy has changed. It changed very recently. Something vaguely sensible about border maintenance is now in the third trimerter, with a partial birth abortion increasingly unlikely. You can write that down.
I would like something done also as I see everyday the damage that is being done but I am not stupid as to
think Bush can do this by himself.
When a big part of congress, the media, a large amount
of the general public, etc. are against this,
look what he is putting up with trying to fight terrorist.
Right now there are minute men at the border and there
are a lot Mexicans, etc. protesting with signs and bullhorns on this side of the border. Also the MM are being shot at. I would like to see a wall and troops
posted at the border but I know with the vast amount of
liberals in every part of society, and the tens of thousands of Mexicans on this side of the border would you
and others be willing to come fight at the border as that
is what will happen.
No, NAFTA is the opposite of what you just said. It is NAFTA that forces Mexico and Canada to allow Americans to invest there on an equal footing with the locals.
Take the stock PVX for instance. I had to file a NAFTA complaint against Canada because the Canadians had a law that barred Americans overall from owning more than half of a Canadian firm. In other words, prior to NAFTA, Canada said that all American investors, whether they knew each other or not, could not in aggregate own 50.1% of a company like PVX.
NAFTA, however, has an entire process in place for Americans to challenge such unfair treatment. Same goes for Mexican property investment in resort areas.
With NAFTA, Americans have a process to challenge the discriminatory laws of Mexico and Canada. Without NAFTA, we were having our stocks and resort properties literally confiscated at will by Canadian (in instances such as PVX) and Mexican (for resort homes) authorities.
I do not say that their economy is better because of NAFTA. Their leaders sold them that it would improve their economy. They have have been hurt by NAFTA too. Also, I did not say that NAFTA would ruin our economy. Our economy is much to large to be hurt by an 87 billion trade deficit. However, it hurt a lot of good Americans.
And which industries have they destabilized?
I've already documented the damage to the farm industry. It has destroyed the clothing manufacturing industry and to other industries where the corporations can close American operations to open a plant just over the border.
Great post on global loss of factory jobs, that technology has replaced many workers, not movement of jobs overseas.
However, I am have been concerned that our manufacturing capacity to make things and our ability to get the resources to make things has been curtailed.
Do you or anyone here have any information that would speak to those concerns of mine?
HEY YOU FOOL! Why dont you try just a LITTLE BIT about doing something about the never ending stream of illegals!
9 days? I've spent most of my life in the area. I've seen no difference. Actually I think it's worse.
I was merely responding to the poster's comment about how much better we were doing. While it is not the figure that America's economy is based on, it certainly is important and should not be ignored. No, I do not think it is only a boogeyman.
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