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To: Malichi; doodlelady
Just catching up with the thread..I wanted to come back to one aspect that I feel is being overlooked, for your comments. First, it goes without saying that whatever Natalie's character, or vices, if any...it's irrelevant to what happened to her, except that it might explain how she found herself in ultimately a life-ending situation..

She had roommates, and none of those roommates were concerned that she never came back to the room that night, nor that she wasn't there when they woke up in the morning, that herbed hadn't been slept in, and they weren't worried enough to immediately call one of the chaperones. The ONLY explanantion that is consistant is that Natalie had told them in advance not to expect her in the room that night..now whether or not she was a closet party girl, or if she was really the innocent naive girl as described who wanted to have an experience, a fling..the last night..kind of a "what happens in Aruba, stays in Aruba" event..then she might have wanted to experiment with alcohol/drugs/whatever....as many have said here..teens do stupid things....but to my recollection we haven't heard from the roomies to explain why they weren't worried when she didn't return that night, or in the morning..

The reason why I raisw this is that is therefor very easy to construct an alternate theory of the events..She's curious..has a fews drinks..many takes some offered drugs willingly..her judgement is somewhat impaired..as evidenced by the fact that she gets in a car with several strange guys...something 99% of girls know NOT to do...assume she goes off willingly with one of them..on the beach..sex occurs..maybe it was her first time..and investigators sahould be able to know with some certainty if she was a virgin, or even slightly experienced....because her best friends would probably know that..teen age girls talk to each other...so after..she's ashamed/embarassed/remorseful..take your pick..she freaks out..tells the boys to leave her alone..get away from her..so they pile in the car and go home..leaving her screaming on the beach..she decides to go into the water..to clean herself...not necessarily implying suicidal..she swims..gets disoriented..panics..drowns..body washes out..marine life can dispose of anything rapidly..and the currents scatter the bones...It's just as plausible as anything else...

Understanding WHY her roomates were NOT upset that she didn't return can, IMHO, give a much better chance to understand what might have happened on the beach. Once we know how her mind worked...we can better grasp what situatuon she might have allowed herself to get into..

1,970 posted on 07/08/2005 9:38:02 AM PDT by ken5050
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To: ken5050
Understanding WHY her roomates were NOT upset that she didn't return

It could be they are ALL covering their respective @sses.
How convenient of them to say that Natalee told them she'd be out all night.

to my recollection we haven't heard from the roomies to explain why they weren't worried when she didn't return that night, or in the morning..

Nobody really cared. They were probably hung over, chaperones included.

Our son won a trip to Europe after graduation in '96, with a group from all over the US.
He's not a drinker, so wasn't too thrilled that even the chaperones wanted to party hearty.

1,981 posted on 07/08/2005 9:55:46 AM PDT by b9
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To: ken5050

Very thoughtful Ken. As good a scenario as any other speculation on this thread. Especially the possibility that Natalee was so upset by her predicament that she demanded Juran "Leave me alone!!!!!!!"

The evidence is not in.........or if it is......we don't have that information.

Beth's maternal instincts should not be discounted, but guilt of shameful behavior in a spoiled teenager might well be similar to the reaction of a psychopath...(not an expert, so I shall defer to others;)

sp


1,987 posted on 07/08/2005 10:07:29 AM PDT by sodpoodle (Newbie, PhD. Tenure allows you to stay put - NOT evict others.)
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To: ken5050

Do we even know if the roommates were back in the room? I wouldn't read too much into that. I was in Europe last month helping my daughter, 20, pack and get ready to go back home after 5 months--well, and sightsee of course. She reminds me SO much of Natalee--long blonde hair, intelligent, uses good judgement, has sound morals. She stayed out extremely late while we stayed in her city--much later than she would ever do here. It's safer (they thought that in Aruba too) and she was with friends.

Plus, your scenario doesn't account for why these three young men have lied so repeatedly. While I think it's possible that Natalee could have been aware that the events of the past hour or so (however long) was not representative of her past behavior, I don't think it follows that she willingly participated in a fling. Had she been slipped a date rate drug and came to realize that she had been raped, yes, she might well have told him to go away and leave her alone. I would have at that age. And she could have wondered, confused, into the ocean. But why is everyone lying if that happened? Doesn't make sense.

What you say could have happened, but that doesn't mean that a crime still didn't take place.


1,990 posted on 07/08/2005 10:11:36 AM PDT by twigs
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To: ken5050

Wow, those are some speculations! I heard Nat's roomies say that they thought she had just spent the night in another friend's room and didn't think anything was wrong until they couldn't find her when she didn't show up for check in for leaving. Evidently her roomies crashed themselves and didn't realize until they woke up the next morning that Natalee never came back to the rooom. Her friends gave the impression that it wasn't out of the ordinary for some of the kids to crash in each others rooms after being out late partying together. I wouldn't read anything in to this if I were you....


2,004 posted on 07/08/2005 10:39:15 AM PDT by demkicker (A skunk sat on a stump; the stump thunk the skunk stunk; the skunk thunk the stump stunk.)
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To: ken5050

Your scenario is plausible except,,the currents on that side of the island don't take a body out, it washes in. Two, why did Joran change his story so much?

Now she could have done that while Joran was on the beach and drowned. And the rest was done to cover it up out of fear. I have always said that was most likely to me. That it was an accidental death with panicked response by teens. But why did the father advise them not to say anything?


2,041 posted on 07/08/2005 12:00:47 PM PDT by cajungirl (no)
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To: ken5050

Ken--about Natalee's classmates and roommates--IMHO they were all fairweather friends. Not a true friend amongst them. Especially the ones that appear on TV. Some of the girls appeared to be gloating in their interviews. Jealousy? Kind of an attitude of:"See what happens to the smart kids? Not so smart, was she? I'm smarter, I'm alive".

I read that Natalee only came to Mountain School District in 9th grade, having spent her elementary and junior high years elsewhere.

These other girls--the jealous ones damning Natalee with faint praise--have probably been tight since first grade, or at least junior high. Natalee was an outsider--a bright and beautiful outsider. The type that makes the home girls band together in their ignorance and envy.


2,067 posted on 07/08/2005 12:45:03 PM PDT by Palladin (America! America! God shed His grace on Thee.)
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To: ken5050
..leaving her screaming on the beach..she decides to go into the water..to clean herself...not necessarily implying suicidal..she swims..gets disoriented..panics..drowns..body washes out..marine life can dispose of anything rapidly..and the currents scatter the bones...It's just as plausible as anything else...

From what the boat guy said when they interviewed him, on the east side of the island things would just wash back onto shore, and on the west side where the hotel is you need to be about a mile out from the island for the body to be washed out to sea. IIRC

2,103 posted on 07/08/2005 3:54:58 PM PDT by Rippersnapper (Personal accountability doesn't begin and stop with the other person.)
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