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To: Dominick
Today as a practical matter, how many Priests know Latin?

I know a number of very devout and holy priests who do. In fact there's a growing number of priests who do. latin is still the official language of the church so, if a priest hopes to be a bishop or cardinal someday it is in his interest to learn it, to best fulfill his vocation

Do we ditch all those who prefer to celebrate Mass in vernacular?

Nope. Just let the pope reaffirm that all priests have the right to say the TLM without their bishop preventing them from doing so. Eventually the NO will dry up on its own. If fact, why not make the TLM the normative mass and let the NO be said with an indult?

87 posted on 06/20/2005 8:45:28 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: murphE

Lots of truth in your post, MurphE . . . here's a problem though, and I say this as someone who has had to teach Latin, informally, to a number of young guys who want to be able to pray in Latin . . .

The crisis in the liturgical language of the Church is tied into the crisis in the ENGLISH language in our schools.

What I mean is, when we went to school (yes, I know, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and nuns wore the habit), we were taught what I, as an educator, consider to be the most basic foundation for learning Latin (or any other language beside one's first language): how to diagram sentences.

By which I mean not only how to diagram sentences but, necessarily, the grammatical rules that such diagrams demand, pre-suppose, and in their own way teach!

To move from six years of diagram work with English into 9th grade Latin was a breeze for me - and for so many others in my age group.

Some of these poor young guys who want to be able to say Mass in Latin BARELY KNOW ENGLISH.

But be that as it may, what a tragedy that they could go through the entire pre-ordination theology graduate school and never have to take even a basic course in Latin (oh, but make sure they get Biblical Greek and Hebrew)!

Where to begin?


92 posted on 06/20/2005 9:16:22 AM PDT by TaxachusettsMan
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To: murphE
Just let the pope reaffirm that all priests have the right to say the TLM without their bishop preventing them from doing so.

Every Priest has the right to say the Tridentine Mass, with or without the Indult. No person is able to distribute Prayer Books, for the Public, without Approbation. Those rules are not dispensed, and never were. Public "Church work" requires that you work without objections from the Local Ordinary. Private work, like posting here, are not subject to approbation.

Saying Mass from any Rite is always permitted, and a Priest can always offer Mass from any Missal, in private. We all know public Worship is under the jurisdiction of the Local Ordinary. As such, for the benefit of the Church, an Indult is promoted. Permission for any regular Mass is required. You can't start a new Parish without leave from the Ordinary.

In most places an Indult is easy to obtain. Episcopal Approval is required in part because of problems and needs of certain areas. In some places, surprisingly, many claim that the Church does not have the authority to change the order of Mass, there it is going to be harder to get. In communities where the claim the Novus Ordo is invalid, a Indult is much harder to obtain. There are good reasons for this. where someone uses TLM to promote schism, denigrate the Normative Mass of the Church, or impugn the authority of the See, then the Normative Mass is the only Mass permitted.

I see the bigger hurdle is a Priest who would take on a Tridentine Mass. There is one in my Diocese, and he is busy. I know a few who know Latin as well, but do not share my enthusiasm for a Tridentine Mass.
103 posted on 06/20/2005 9:39:26 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: murphE; Dominick; sinkspur
Nope. Just let the pope reaffirm that all priests have the right to say the TLM without their bishop preventing them from doing so. Eventually the NO will dry up on its own. If fact, why not make the TLM the normative mass and let the NO be said with an indult?

Far better to abolish the Novus Ordo and allow the Tridentine Mass to be said either in Latin or the Vernacular. The people will then quickly sort out how many Latin Masses are really wanted by their attendance patterns, provided all Parishes offer at least one Latin Mass per weekend. Even Sinkspur, bless his Vatican II-ized heart, told me a Catholic such as himself could see the merit in this.

Instinct tells me that among the present generation, it will work out for now to 1/4 to 1/3 of all Masses in Latin.

120 posted on 06/20/2005 11:16:39 AM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: murphE

Your last paragraph cannot be repeated too often. That is exactly how the liturgical restoration will occur. All we need is for Catholic people to be exposed to the Tridentine Mass and for it to be available everywhere and liturgical restoration will occur since the Novus Ordo has so very few charms by comparison.


231 posted on 06/21/2005 9:48:46 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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