Is Linux For Losers?

Forbes.com ^ | 06.16.05 | Dan Lyons

[Willie Green]

NEW YORK - Theo de Raadt is a pioneer of the open source software movement and a huge proponent of free software. But he is no fan of the open source Linux operating system.

"It's terrible," De Raadt says. "Everyone is using it, and they don't realize how bad it is. And the Linux people will just stick with it and add to it rather than stepping back and saying, 'This is garbage and we should fix it.'"

[Golden Eagle]

Nothing's free, no matter how much your life revolves around finding something that supposedly is.

[Salo]

FreeBSD is free

While you might expect an operating system with these features to sell for a high price, FreeBSD is available *free of charge* and comes with full source code. (freebsd.org)

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Samba is freely available under the GNU General Public License. (samba.org)

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Free: it costs nothing.

[Golden Eagle]

Not even the download is free - costs bandwidth. Not that you can ever admit it.

[Salo]

You're reaching.

Not even the download is free - costs bandwidth. Not that you can ever admit it.

[Golden Eagle]

Oh, really, you've weaseled your way into free bandwidth? Getting closer to your utopia every day I guess.

[clyde asbury]

Exactly. That was basically my point. :)

Well, it sure sounds like making fun of grandma's lack of computer expertise was your point.

My point is that grandma and most general users don't buy computers to learn about kernels or OSs any more than they buy cars to learn about transmissions. That is as it should be.

I respect you more than the Linux jihadists, Shadow, but you sound just like them sometimes. Your post #94 here is an example.

Grandma doesn't give a sh*t about partitions, and she would tell that to any snooty technician who presumed to tell her she should. Right before she shoved them out the door with the barrel of a shotgun. :)

[adam_az]

"Theo de Raadt has been a notorious prima donna with an attitude problem in the Unix world for many years. He not only engages in petty intra-Unix quarrels, but "his" OpenBSD stemmed from when he split it from FreeBSD because he most certainly didn't play nice with others. He likes to cause problems and strife."

Theo split with NetBSD, not FreeBSD. He used to be one of the NetBSD core developers, and had written a great deal of the NetBSD code. He has posted the entire email exchange online, it's easy to find, I'll let anyone who cares make their own judgement as to who was hard to get along with.

That said, Theo and his OpenBSD core team are also the maintainer of the OpenSSH project.

I've used OpenBSD for many years, it is hands down the most POSIX correct UNIX available. OpenBSD project is not perfect, but it also takes security more seriously than any other OS I have encountered, I say that as an IT security guy who gets to break into computers for a living.

[adam_az]

"Theo, stop whining. You sound like a Democrat. You need to content yourself with having written a fine OS. Unfortunately, another OS got the momentum and mindshare. The stars simply lined up right for Linux."

Linux is not an OS, it's a kernel. Period.

The "OS" is GNU and BSD userland. Including software written by Theo.

[adam_az]

"The Forbes writer, much like this writer from Business Week, is concerned about the Linux GPL license written by rabid anti-American Richard Stallman (stallman.org). The BSD license is much more business friendly, and allows others to use that code without lawyers swooping down and attempting to confiscate your work."

Disinfo from the usual suspect.

If you don't like the license of any intellectual property, simply don't use it.

If you don't like lawyers a-swooping, then don't use proprietary software like Microsoft, either. They sue a lot more people than the GNU project ever has.

[adam_az]

"Total Novell revenue, $297 million.

Total Linux revenue, $8 million.

Net result, $16 million loss."

Meanwhile, in the same article you selectively posted from:

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While NetWare sales continue to slide, Novell has yet to see an offsetting increase in Linux sales -- total subscriptions fell from 21,000 in the fourth quarter of 2004 to 19,000 in this year's first quarter.

In contrast, between its fiscal third and fourth quarter ending in February, Linux subscription revenue grew 18 percent at Red Hat Inc. (Nasdaq: RHAT), a North Carolina rival that has a large development lab in Westford.
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Meanwhile, Novell, who you are defending here, expects to see their Linux business grow. (I personally doubt it.) That leaves you in the humorous position of being the defender of a company who is selling a product you believe to be inherently evil since it's based on GPL code which you think is anti-American since some of it is written by furriners.

Quoting your article again, Novell is moving their development to... India, China, Russia!

" The company increased overall revenue slightly to $297 million, mostly on consulting services and maintenance. Novell had a $16 million loss, but says it has begun cutting costs by pushing consulting services and development work to labs in China, eastern Europe and India."

[adam_az]

"That explains it then...he wants Linux out of the picture so he badmouths it like a little kid!"

Hint:

All Linuxes use Theo's software. Theo's OpenBSD uses no Linux software.

He IS in a position to speak on the subject. He's written much technical dissertation on the topic.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Hey, that pretty much sums up my opinion of my first iteration of software that I have written.

[adam_az]

"Well when communist countries and democratic political parties start naming something besides Linux as their official operating system, maybe I'll start complaining about them instead."

Already have, it's called Microsoft Windows. It happened in 2003 when they gave the ChiComs access to their source code.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2003/feb03/02-28gspchinapr.mspx

Now, they're helping the ChiCom government censor their version of the Internet.

http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050613/tc_afp/chinainternetcompany_050613094345

[Golden Eagle]

Disinfo from the usual suspect.

I simply referenced writers from Forbes and Business Week, far more than anyone you have backing you up.

If you don't like lawyers a-swooping, then don't use proprietary software like Microsoft, either. They sue a lot more people than the GNU project ever has.

LOL, you guys and your obsession with Microsoft. They rarely launch lawsuits against anyone, except against spammers and the like, which I support.

[Golden Eagle]

While NetWare sales continue to slide, Novell has yet to see an offsetting increase in Linux sales -- total subscriptions fell from 21,000 in the fourth quarter of 2004 to 19,000 in this year's first quarter.

Yes that was in the article I linked. You think this is good news for Novell, apparently, LOL.

Quoting your article again, Novell is moving their development to... India, China, Russia!

Can't even contain your excitement, obviously.

[Golden Eagle]

Already have, it's called Microsoft Windows.

There you go with your obsession with Microsoft again. Microsoft is not the official operating system of China, Linux is. They take a free copy of Red Hat and rename it Red Flag, which is their official O/S.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/5116

I don't expect them to ever name Windows their official O/S, no matter how confused about it you are. They would have to pay for that, and couldn't get the rights to modify the source, redistribute, resell, and even rename it Red Flag like they can with Linux.

[adam_az]

"Speaking of XP, am I the only one that immediately switches everything back to the Classic (win2K) View?"

I do it too, and turn off every fancy effect except Cleartype.

Also Detail view for all File Explorer windows, show all file extensions, show path in title bar.

[adam_az]

" There you go with your obsession with Microsoft again. Microsoft is not the official operating system of China, Linux is. They take a free copy of Red Hat and rename it Red Flag, which is their official O/S."

Nice try, that article is 5 years old.

The developments I posted are very recent, up to this month.

[An.American.Expatriate]

LOL

Yeah, thanks, I realize that I must have some piece of hardware which is "causing" this to occur. Unfortunately, not everyone can afford to spends the hours and money needed to track this down (for microsoft)!

As I mentioned earlier, this should be an "easy" fix for MS to resolve on the OS side! Things like this are taught in Programming 101!! Baring a catastrophic event, these types of situations should not occur, even if a random piece of hardware is the ultimate culprit.

This simply reinforces my original point of posting this to theis thread - as long as the user has no problems with his system (including installation which is quite nice), the system is very user friendly. Once a problem occurs, a good bit of knowledge/a lot of internet searching is needed to resolve the issues - not very different from Linux in that regard!!

I appreciate the time you took to look into this. But I really don't have the time / money to replace, one by one, each piece of hardware until the problem is discovered.

[Golden Eagle]

Nice try, that article is 5 years old.

And nothing has happened in those last five years to make Windows their official O/S either. It's Linux, which isn't about to change, since they get way too many benefits for free to ever switch. Amazing how you accuse me of disinformation, while you try to hide the story of Red Flag in China.