Bush says Cold War captivity one of great wrongs

NY Times ^ | May 7, 2005 | REUTERS

[Grzegorz 246]

How does it prove that I am wrong and you are right ?

[Destro]

What is wrong with you? The Polish Home Army rose up to take Warsaw before the Soviets arrived - they wer enot acting as allies/agents of the Soviets. The Russians did two things - stopped offensive operations and as the Polish Home Army was about to stop fighting - urged them to keep fighting but not really allowing them any help.

That is not the same thing as you said that the Polish Home Army was acting on Russian orders and then was betrayed.

[Grzegorz 246]

You say:

"The Soviets did not ask the Poles to rise up"
"I am correct the Poles rose up without Soviet urging"

from 229:

"Soviet radio-stations were also calling for an uprising."

Of course I'm not a native English speaker, but sometimes I think that you've got bigger problems with this language.

[Grzegorz 246]

"That is not the same thing as you said that the Polish Home Army was acting on Russian orders and then was betrayed."

When I said It ?

[paul_fromatlanta]

>>This is payback for Putin's remarks earlier this weekend. Puck Futin.<<

I think it's more than just payback - I think it was a planned decision by the President to be frank about the past - it's very refreshing.

[lizol]

Moscow Radio Station Kosciuszko July 29, 1944 broadcast.

Text by the BBC Monitoring Service on July 30, 1944.


[Moscow in Polish, July 29, 1944. 8:15 p.m.]

Appeal to Warsaw: Fight The Germans!


No doubt Warsaw already hears the guns of the battle which is soon to bring her liberation. Those who have never bowed their heads to the Hitlerite power will again, as in 1939, join battle with the Germans, this time for decisive action. The Polish Army now entering Polish territory, trained in the Soviet Union, is now joined to the People's Army to form the Corps of the Polish Armed Forces, the armed arm of our nation in its struggle for independence.

Its ranks will be joined tomorrow by the sons of Warsaw. They will all together, with the Allied Army pursue the enemy westwards, wipe out the Hitlerite vermin from Polish land and strike a mortal blow at the beast of Prussian Imperialism. For Warsaw, which did not yield but fought on, the hour of action has already arrived. The Germans will no doubt try to defend themselves in Warsaw and add new destruction and thousands of victims. Our houses and our parks, our bridges and our railway stations, our factories and public buildings will be turned into defence positions.

They will expose the city to ruin and its inhabitants to death. They will try to take away all the most precious possessions and turn into dust all that they have to leave behind. It is, therefore, a hundred times more necessary than ever to remember that in the flood of Hitlerite destruction all is lost that is not saved by active effort ; that by direct, active struggle in the streets of Warsaw, in its houses, factories and stores, we not only hasten the moment of final liberation, but also save a Nation's property and the lives of our brothers. …

http://www.warsawuprising.com/doc/kosciuszko.htm

And at the same time they knew, that they would stop on the other side of the Wisla river.
So what was that message for?????

Liberators, bloody hell, indeed.

[RusIvan]

What is propaganda? ==

I already told you. Propaganda is your words about "700 thousands poles killed by russians and 2 mlns poles sent to Sibiria".
It is not true. Hence it is anti-russian propaganda. Got it now:)).

[RusIvan]

M_68 is phyco or someting:). His hate probably will cause him a stroke and he will one more victim of russians:))).

[anonymoussierra]

"While going through these articles, I notice unprecedented personal attacks against people’s nationality and what they stand for. We disagree with so many issues; it would be impossible to have adult debate or even sit down and have a cool dinner. Lets take deep breath of fresh air and relax, let’s take walk on boulevard, and enjoy our life, for life its too short to be nasty and angry all the time at others. As far as Putin goes, as I said before; he went too far criticizing US and her people, and Putin is last of the bunch of people to tell US how should she conduct herself and what she stands for. US people are not stupid, and many of them used to and still fight for what US believes in; freedom, dignity, respect and most above liberty. As far as Kwasniewski goes, at least he has guts to stand up what he believes in. You may criticize me all you want, I won't hold this against you, after all; as humans we are critical bunch of species; however we should have rational and adult discussion, instead getting personal. I'm too young to debate folks who have more expertise in history and lived through wars, though my country went through her ordeal; putting all Russians as communistic and sadistic people is fatal mistake being made here, or putting all Poles same way is fatal mistake as well. There is enough blame going around on both sides, neither though should we allow our self to degrade our standing. I would stand by Poland with my soul and heart and nothing would change that. I am a Pole and I will die as a Pole, how God would decide that. So let’s take this huge breath of air and enjoy ourselves. Let’s concentrate on emerging threat to us all-Terrorism. If you think WWII was twisted, wait till terrorist would get their hands on nuclear weapons or other biological and chemical devices.”

[RusIvan]

What exactly are you questioning:

- the fact, that Soviets deported hundreds of thousands of Poles?

- the number of them given by ms_68?

- location (Siberia)?===

Who was depoted. Where. How much. Just few remembraces of "deported to Sibiria".
Because I never heard about polish citizens in Sibiria.
Soviet citizens collaborators with hetlirites I heard. POWs of germans and japanese. No poles.

[anonymoussierra]

My husband do have had write Thank you this is 250

[RusIvan]

And at the same time they knew, that they would stop on the other side of the Wisla river.===

But lizol it was ame Armia Kraiowa who attacked Red Amrmy supply lines.
WHY on earth Red army had to pay lifes of her soldiers to save Armia Kraiowa?
BTW they started Uprising without any information to Red Army command.

[Chgogal]

There is no criticism here Sara. We know the truth as we have family who experienced it. We will leave it at that. You are right, it is time for a lovely walk. On with Life!

[Grzegorz 246]

Stick your kacapian propaganda in your ass.

[lizol]

Same did French in Paris.

And again my question - if Soviets were not going to support the uprising, why they urged Poles to fight by broadcasting such a BS???

[RusIvan]

Soviet radio-stations were also calling for an uprising. ===

It is new for me. I personaly doubt it. I red before and got from our opponents here that poles uprised in Warsaw by themselves.

Do you have proves that soviets asked for uprising? What stations called in what dates and so on. I'll will check it on russian historical forum.

[RusIvan]

Greg relax:)). Go drink some vodka for victory!

[RusIvan]

And again my question - if Soviets were not going to support the uprising, why they urged Poles to fight by broadcasting such a BS???==

If they did it then it is betrayal. But I want to know more about it. Facts, proves, not propaganda.