[Reaganwuzthebest]

But why would you prefer permanent immigrant families over temporary guest workers?

It's mostly about economics, guest workers do nothing but lower wages. They will be used and exploited by employers and all for the sake of profit while Americans pay the social costs. We've had guest worker programs in the past and they have failed for exactly that reason.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"They will be used and exploited by employers and all for the sake of profit while Americans pay the social costs."

There was a discussion earlier this year in FR about a US/Mexico totalization agreement which would co-ordinate the Social Security plans of the two nations and pay benefits to those Mexican citizens who came here legally, worked legally, and moved back to Mexico to retire.

The article posted claimed that this program would pay billions of dollars to illegal aliens who worked in the US and returned to Mexico; the exact figure was roughly $432 billion in pay outs. The "close the borders" advocates were SCREAMING about the idea that billions of Social Security dollars would be paid to illegal aliens, and even went as far as suggesting that Bush should stand trial for treason.

Their arguments begged several questions, and gave strong indications about the dishonesty that seems to surround any discussion about immigration:

• The Social Security system is a pay to play system; if you don't pay into it, you can't collect benefits...so this was an open admission by those who normally argue that illegal aliens project a negative impact on our economy that they in fact have had a positive impact on it by paying billions into Social Security that they never expected to collect?
• Surely then, and following their argument to its logical conclusion, illegals who paid billions into Social Security (let's not forget that it was they who argued that the cost of illegal immigration was higher than it's benefits to the economy) MUST have also paid trillions in Income Taxes that they were never able to collect.
• Either their first argument (illegal aliens pay no taxes) is wrong, or their second argument (a totalization agreement with Mexico will cost the US billions of dollars in benefits paid to illegal aliens from Mexico) is wrong.

Which is is, and why then are they lying?

[bayourod]

"guest workers do nothing but lower wages"

No, that's not the only good thing they do.

They also pay taxes, contribute to our GNP, do jobs that we don't want to do, provide the labor necessary to keep businesses from relocating or outsourcing, bring experience and skills in the trades occupations that our schools aren't teaching; and buy our lottery tickets.

Reality is that we are dependent upon them now and will become more dependent upon them in the future.