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To: Jim Robinson
Sorry it took me so long to reply. I got home just in time to see the thread when it was at post 811(!), and then had to get out to dinner, but I'm back and rested and all beered up.

I don't know why AILPAC got banned (nor sabertooth, or any of the other posters mentioned.) I wasn't on the thread where it finally happened. Maybe they posted something from proscribed sites, or went non-linear on someone. Whatever the reason, I defer to the decision of the admin.

I've had some pretty heated exchanges with almost all of the "FROBLs" on FR at one time or another. Actually, the heated exchanges were also with people that aren't so much FROBLs as they are Bush-BotsTM. They perceive any criticism of the government's failures with regard to immigration law enforcement to be criticisms of Bush's 'guest worker' proposal.

The FROBLs, on the other hand range from naive to absurd in their posts. Many of them throw down the race card so fast that Jesse Jackson and Maxine Waters look to them for guidance. I must admit though, they generally don't resort to personal attacks, except maybe in a neurotically passive-aggressive way.

Here is the deal as I see it: The will to enforce immigration law has not existed at the federal level since the late 1970's. Reagan tried to deal with the problem in a humane and compassionate way, and it was a stunning failure. The amnesty itself, had it been backed up with rigorous enforcement of the laws against hiring illegal aliens, would have been a great answer. But it was NOT backed up with enforcement, and the number of illegal aliens has skyrocketed since that amnesty.

Furthermore, the feds have mandated education and healthcare (and numerous other direct or indirect benefits) for illegals, again a humane and compassionate approach, but uncontrollable with regard to scale and costs without the concordant enforcement of laws designed to manage illegal immigration.

This has placed the federal government in the position of having to direct massive redistribution of taxpayer money from communities that have (yet) to be severely impacted by illegal immigration, and channel those funds to areas that are losing hospital emergency rooms and that have crowded schools and prisons. In effect, the government has found a way to increase its size and scale through not enforcing certain laws and developing bureaucracies and policies to deal with the results.

The subject of 'immigration reform' has come to a head because of national security concerns post 9-11, and because of costs in the billions. The situation is out of control. But the situation is out of control because there has not been a will to enforce laws. How will passing more laws help a situation when the reason for the situation (and those laws) was lack of will to enforce law?

Legal immigrants, and all law-abiding citizens are in a very tough spot because of these prolonged failures to enforce the immigration laws. Our security is compromised by the lack of control on all borders and the rampant illegality and corruption on the southern border especially. The people smuggling and document forgery industries that run in parallel to the illegal immigration industry are the Achilles Heel of national security. And from a conservative perspective, how can anyone champion a situation where the federal government grows and gains power from its own failures?

There is much to be concerned about with regard to the illegal immigration situation. It impacts numerous other issues that may not at first seem to be related. People are passionate about this issue because it is a serious problem in a large number of ways.

I hope we will be mature enough as a community to tolerate the heated discussions that result from our trying to reason an appropriate way of handling this problem.

1,172 posted on 02/11/2005 5:41:13 PM PST by spodefly (Yo, homey ... Is that my briefcase?)
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To: spodefly; Jim Robinson

Excellent post, well laid out discussion of the root cause of the current problem.

Given the lack of political will that you postulate (OBTW, I feel that is changing), if the Federal Government will not solve the immediate problem of a porous border, to whom does that task fall?

And before folks get the wrong impression, it is absolutely imperative that the border be closed. I offer proof by way of analogy...

The little Dutch boy ran out of fingers and toes trying to plug leaks in the dyke...and eventually failed. You cant solve the problem of a breached dyke by pumping the canals back into the sea...you've got to seal the breach first.

The Federal Gov't is starting to do that now, but a lot more needs to be done. JMHO...


1,191 posted on 02/11/2005 5:50:24 PM PST by HiJinx (www .ProudPatriots.org ~ Operation Easter/Passover ~ Coming soon to a tagline near you...)
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To: spodefly; All
I will make a prediction.
The illegal immigration debate will start when Hillary brings it up in her move to the right in a couple of years or sooner. Rather than let her have the issue we will finally take action. Repair fences, increase border patrol, use military if absolutely necessary and basically get "real" about protecting a very open border.

Those that equate advocating a strong position on protecting our borders with opposing Bush are very short sided IMHO.
1,202 posted on 02/11/2005 5:57:24 PM PST by rodguy911 (rodguy911:First Let's get rid of the UN and the ACLU,..toss in CAIR as well.)
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