Rice urges Israel to avoid unilateral steps on Jerusalem

Ha'aretz ^ | 6 February 2005 | Aluf Benn, Haaretz Staff, and Agencies

[Sunsong]

Israel doesnt need America's aid!

Israel doesn't have to take it. Around here if someone doesn't "need" something - they have the integrity not to take it.

[Sunsong]

I never questioned what a good friend the US was to Israel. I in no way believe that Pres Bush intentionally wants to undermine Israel's survival. My point was that unlike Europe (and Egypt) it was a two way street.

That's what most of the posts in this thread are about. Perhaps you need to read the posts here and then try and tell me that they are pro-America and pro-Bush.

If you do not agree with the anti-Rice, anti-Bush posts in this thread - please point me to your posts refuting them.

[Quix]

I have preferred to think

that Bush was negative toward Israel only as demanded by the puppet masters under thread of death.

The Condi stuff is most disturbing.

I really don't like a lot of the current winds. Not that they are shockingly surprising. Just hoped I'd not see such from this administration.

Sigh.

Even, so, come quickly, Lord Jesus--except for the souls we may yet be able to love into Your Kingdom by your grace, Blood and Spirit.

[section9]

It has been the longstanding policy of the U.S. Government to maintain our embassy in Tel Aviv so as not to prejudice the Final Status negotiations for Jerusalem. Rice is merely restating U.S. policy in order to maintain our maneuvering room.

Further, it does no good for Rice to encourage Israel to maintain settlements that we have said, on record and through three Administrations, that we oppose. If we want to pull the settlements back towards the Green Line, well, fine. But the ones in the interior of the West Bank are exposed to constant guerilla activity and would have to be resupplied by convoy or helicopter were they cut off. That's not living.

Condoleezza Rice is the Secretary of State. She is about the business of conducting American foreign policy, not that of Israel. It just so happens that on most issues, our policies coincide. Were she Israel's foreign minister, I would expect Abu Mazen to be wearing Brown colored pants right about now, but she's not.

I'd rather she works for us than for anyone else.

Good on ya', Condi!

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[Torie]

It is so easy to be a maximalist keyboard warrior. That tends to be something of a syndrome in this neighborhood. There is risk in war, and risk in peace. Good choosing requires good judgment. Nothing else will substitute.

[185JHP]

BTTT

[sarah_f]

Good grief. I find myself agreeing with you.

It must be the end times.

[anotherview]

I really don't care if you find my post offensive. I do NOT want us to take American support if the price is that we have to commit suicide if the U.S. government tells us to. Insisting on not taking care of Iran would be tantamount to that. Asking Jews to give up Jerusalem is like asking Christians to give up the Vatican and then some, or Muslims to give up Mecca.

Sorry, no, American support simply isn't worth that.

[anotherview]

We are independent. We will always be independence. Never has the U.S. said we have to surrender our soveriegnty for aid which is mostly loan guarantees in any cases -- loans which have always been repaid with interest.

If the price of U.S. aid is our right to defend our national interests then we need no such aid.

[anotherview]

Funny, but those checks didn't come with those kind of strings attached AFAIK.

[Huntingtonian]

Fella, every check comes with a string attached. Don't be naive.

[sarah_f]

I am not sure if Rice represents a new aggressiveness on the part of the administration or if it is her own "style".

One only has to look at her very, very close personal relationship with the President to arrive at the correct conclusion.

[xm177e2]

aid which is mostly loan guarantees

A substantial amount of aid that America gives to Israel is not in loans. It is billions of dollars to spend at American military equipment manufacturers.

I'm not trying to be anti-Israel here, I'm just pointing out that if we wanted, we could tell Israel to jump and if Israel didn't jump, we could take the money back. Not that we should, just that we could. There is no way to avoid this, it's natural, just like the laws of supply and demand.

[Sunsong]

Sorry, no, American support simply isn't worth that.

Perhaps you don't understand what I am saying. I am saying that if you don't like taking American council then it's time for American aid to stop.

Apparently we agree. So let's stop the American aid to Israel! I find you offensive still. As I said to another of your rude commrades - be careful how arrogant you get.

[Sunsong]

If the price of U.S. aid is our right to defend our national interests then we need no such aid.

Time to stop it then. Tell America that you no longer want our support.

[dervish]

That's what most of the posts in this thread are about. Perhaps you need to read the posts here and then try and tell me that they are pro-America and pro-Bush.

So you are telling "most" of the posters in this thread to go elsewhere? Who are you?

No the onus is on you to point out any posts that are anti-Bush or anti-America. Being pro-Israel or against this particular policy does not fit the global description you have given. I have seen numerous criticisms of Pres Bush and policies on this forum (immigration, Iraq, search and seizure, land regulation, ROP). That is as it should be. This is a political forum.

If you do not agree with the anti-Rice, anti-Bush posts in this thread - please point me to your posts refuting them.

Again I do not have to prove anything. I already stated my opinion that Pres Bush has been a wonderful friend to Israel. You know since you quoted me. I can criticize this policy without being “anti-America.” Further I made valid points about the money we give to Europe and Egypt and you have yet to address my substantive points. As to your repeated comments that Israel should refuse the aid, again I ask why? Did France refuse the US contribution to NATO before it stuck the shiv in at the UN?

If you don’t have an answer that’s fine, but don’t try intimidation instead.

[Sunsong]

You flatter yourself without cause.

You have said nothing that I find substantive. My view remains the same - if Israel doesn't like American council - then Israel is free to go it alone, or as one of your commrades said - Israel may decide to link up with China. And if that is the calibre of thinking here - I urge you to make the link.

I am sick of anti-Americanism, anti-Bush, anti-Rice vitriol. I am fed up with it. My loyalty is to America. I have supported President Bush's tough stand with Arafat and the so-called Palestinaians - but I am truly outraged with the garbage posted on this thread and as far as I'm concerned - if you all cannot work with us - by all means - move on.

[Paperdoll]

Exodus 23:31-33

(God said) And I will fix your boundaries from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the southern desserts to the Euphrates River. I will help you defeat the people now living in the land, and you will drive them out ahead of you. Make no treaties with them and have nothing to do with their gods. Do not even let them live among you! If you do, they will infect you with their sin of idol worship, and that would be disastrous for you.

[sheik yerbouty]

The Arabs will never hold up their end of any agreement. They will hang themselves.