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To: ultima ratio

No. It's not right there in scripture. These weird Catholic teachings are the result of man-made interpretations which are only believed by Catholics and then only because it has been passed down by men, not because Catholics pick up the Bible and clearly see it for themselves.

I'm underwhelmed by your haughty attitude as you speak down to the rest of us about your vast knowledge of greek and the like. I've already said I don't pretend to be a theologian. I don't need to be one. It is you that think you have to go out on that skinny limb and defend that branch. I'm just pointing out to you that your arguments are weak, unconvincing and rambling (and haughty).

Good luck!


443 posted on 02/03/2005 11:36:48 AM PST by plain talk
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To: plain talk

I don't speak down to you at all. It is not speaking down to you to present evidence to disprove your claims, especially when it was you who went on the attack initially by calling what Catholic believe "bizarre". I merely responded with the traditional Catholic argument regarding John's narrative. If you find such a rebuttal "haughty", then you are being extremely unreasonable, since it was you who raised the issue in the first place. You might at least have addressed the points made to you in response. The fact that you didn't, but resorted to an airy dismissal and then to insults, indicates to me you not only don't know what you are talking about, but are too lacking in humility to say so.

Remember, it was you who accused me of not being able to interpret the Bible as well as you and who now call my arguments weak and rambling--without deigning to respond to a single one of them. In fact I suspect they were right on target and that you are the one who hasn't got a clue about the real interpretation of the passage under discussion. You simply assume Jesus was speaking metaporically, because this is what you, and those with whom you associate, wish to believe. To your mind wishing makes it so and what you want to believe outweighs everything else--the evidence of the text itself, as well as the testimony of the early Church, including the that of the ante-Nicene writers, who were the disciples of the apostles themselves. Such an attitude is without any merit whatsoever. It is not haughtiness on my part to point this out.


445 posted on 02/03/2005 7:45:17 PM PST by ultima ratio (I)
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