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To: olde north church; Rokke

"Your evidence is flawed. The classification of Episcopals is intellectual dishonesty of the highest order. ..." ~ olde north church

Not so.

"In England, Calvinism also prevailed since it was the theology behind the Thirty-Nine Articles (1563) of the Church of England" (Paul Enns, *Moody Handbook of Theology*. Chicago: Moody Press, 1989), p. 476.

The Episcopalians held as their subordinate standards the 39 Articles of Religion. This confession is Calvinistic in emphasis.

During that historic period, not only the 39 Articles of Religion ("Episcopalians"), but whenever you read of the Waldensians, the Bohemian Brethren (in Poland), the Huguenots, you're reading of churches that were Calvinistic.

Historic Protestant, Episcopalian doctrine is Reformed and Calvinistic. The Episcopalian church that adheres to its historic doctrine is still Reformed in the United States.

X. OF FREE WILL. 39 Articles of Religion.

The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such, that he cannot turn and prepare himself, by his own natural strength and good works, to faith, and calling upon God. Wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasant and acceptable to God, without the grace of God by Christ preventing us, that we may have a good will, and working with us, when we have that good will.

XVII. OF PREDESTINATION AND ELECTION

Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be endued with so excellent a benefit of God, be called according to God's purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption: they be made like the image of his only- begotten Son Jesus Christ: they walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain to everlasting felicity.

http://smith2.sewanee.edu/gsmith/courses/Religion391/DocsOldSouth/1790-LelandEpisChurch.html

On Dissenting from the Episcopal Church. Leland, Virginia Chronicle, 1790.

... A church of Christ, according to the gospel, is a congregation of faithful persons, called out of the world by divine grace, who mutually agree to live together, and execute gospel discipline among them; which government, is not national, parochial or presbyterial, but congregational.

4. The church of England has a human head. Henry VIII cast off the Pope's yoke, and was declared head of the church 1533; which title all the kings of England have born since; but the gospel church acknowledges no head but king Jesus: He is law-giver, king and judge--is a jealous God, and will not give his glory unto another. [excerpt]

*

"There is also a more subtle point in the Calvinist belief regarding the Elect, equality and predestination. ..." - olde north church

"Calvinist belief"???? Hahahaha

Romans 8:28-30; 9:11-13;

Acts 13:48;

Eph. 1:4-6

Also see: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1331290/posts?page=349#349

*

"If you believe in predestination, one must also, taken to it's logical conclusion, are born into your place and can never expect to achieve change in status. There is no incentive to pursue a greater life. ...." ~ olde north church

Until minutes before he died, do you think the thief on the cross knew that he was one of God's elect chosen before the foundation of the earth?

*

"That is the Calvinist paradox, ... it's an oppressing force. ..." ~ olde north church

It is, huh? What will you say when you find out that all the murdered (deliberately aborted) babies are among those who are the elect of God? (As, I'm sure, are some of their mothers who murdered them.)

Of course many of those arrogant ones who embrace various and sundry doctrines in the man-centered religion actually believe that man - using his free-will - can thwart what God has done ( http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1331290/posts?page=349#349 ), and therefore - since those babies were murdered before they were born - they never had the opporfunity to earn their salvation, and are lost forever.

God laughs at that idea: Romans 9:11


410 posted on 02/01/2005 9:28:51 AM PST by Matchett-PI (Today's DemocRATS are either religious moral relativists, libertines or anarchists.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 407 | View Replies ]


To: Matchett-PI; All
Had the Founder's decided to create a theocracy, Calvin may have had a greater influence. Your quotes regarding freedom, predestination and the rights of man are related to religious rights/dogma not a civic government. As noted the Mecklenberg Declaration, by Presbyterians, Calvinists addressing the King? Calvinistic does not equal Calvin. There are remnants of the Roman Church in Episcopalianism.
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I'm waiting for your opinion regarding the French Revolution and the Calvinist influence. Where most of it was a response to corruption of the Crown and the Church rather than an intuitional response to a nearness to God.
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We also had the Councils of 12 to oversee the Reformations to guide these changes and Henry's fear of the Pope that prevented him from taking the next step to leave the Church and there was biblical precedent with Saul when the Hebrews want a king they could see.
You have tried to make a distinction between "man centered religion" and I guess what God whispered to Calvin that He passed over Zwinglii and Luther. What allows the Calvin to speak for God?
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You pick and choose your responses and statements to further your point of view and that is the nature of man. You are elevating Calvin in stature to that of God. I consider that he possessed a naturally superior religious intellect. Personally, I don't believe Luther was fit to bear Calvin's shoes. That being said, IT IS MY OPINION, he possessed the stubbornness of the know-it-all.
413 posted on 02/01/2005 11:04:26 AM PST by olde north church (Powerful is the hand that holds the keys to Heaven.)
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