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***The point is that the man is a millionare whether or not he takes out a single penny, but if he doesn't draw on that money in the account, even though he is a millionare, it is not helping him any.***

Ok, so first, you declare that the million is in my account, then you declare that the million is NOT in my account, and now, the million is back in my account.

IS THAT YOUR FINAL ANSWER?

The only reason I ask is that you have been accusing me of not dealing honestly with what you are saying. The only problem is that I need a play by play announcer to even know whether you are currently flipping or flopping.

Oh, well, I can only deal with what you claim is the analogy now. And, obviously, you have no clue about the benefits of having a large sum of money in your account. First of all, taking the money out of your account and spending it as a requirement for salvation is silly for the fact that it portrays grace as nothing more than a tool which man uses to improve his estate. Frankly, and I already know how Arminians tend to deal with grace, I find that highly irreverent. Remember, we are talking about the grace in salvation, which means we are talking about the Person of Christ.

Titus 2:11 The grace of God that brings salvation has appeared...

I tend to treat the shed grace of God and the Person of Christ with far more reverence than presuming that Christ is a kind of barter which I must withdrawal from a bank account and then spend. Frankly, it reminds me more of something I might have seen at the "Vanity Fair" than anything which can be found in the Bible.

Secondly, the idea of spending the Lord Jesus more than a little bit reminds me of Simon and his irreverent attitude toward the saving graces of God. As I recall, he was cursed with the following words: "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!" Highly irreverent indeed.

To be quite honest, I do find it highly disturbing that you regard the saving grace of God as some kind of liquid asset that you must withdrawal and spend.

***No, you showed that you were not interesting in an honest discussion.***

Well, who can have an honest discussion when you keep changing your analogy? It's in my account, then it is not in my account, and now, POOF, it is back to being in my account. Like I said:

IS THAT YOUR FINAL ANSWER?

***Not at all, my 'analogy' is based on scripture (Heb.2:9, 1Jn.2:2, Rom.5:18),you should try reading the Bible sometime,it will clear up alot of your confusion.***

I'm sorry, but none of those scriptures you referenced even remotely come close to presenting this bank analogy that you used. Like I said, I find it highly disturbing that you think the grace of God is something to be used as barter.

***You should have been around on FR when we had some serious flame wars on these threads.***

Well, I'm sure that you are real proud of the flames you've started. From what I've seen, you don't seem to be to bashful of personally slamming your opponents even today. I take it as a compliment. When my opponents can manage nothing but personal accusations, it means that they no longer have the ability to counter the arguments rationally.

***Now what Arminian church did you say you came from again?***

Speaking of, I happened to visit a nice little Arminian Baptist church yesterday and was presented with the idea that all we have to do to have a Harley is to pray to God to get it and then listen for the answer on how to get it. It reminded me strongly of our current discussion about bartering the graces of God. It was name it claim it garbage at its worst. Instead of closing with the normal prayer, he decided that he would listen to our prayers about what we would like to have. I was sorely tempted to pray for him using such interesting verses as this one:

James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.

I wonder how that would go with his interesting interpretation of the verse he used.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.