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To: fortheDeclaration
"Noah and Abraham found grace because God forsaw that they would have faith."

Well, that's one interpretation. The problem is did God see they would "work" for Him and declared them righteous? Isn't that salvation by works? Besides, faith is a gift from God so whose faith is it anyway?

We once talked about Abraham out on another thread. God appeared to Abraham and swore to make a great nation from him in Genesis 12:1 far before he was made righteous. It was in Genesis 15:6 where it says Abraham believed God and it was credited as righteousness and of course later for Issac where he was credited for works. If Abraham would have die at any time during this timeline would he have still been saved?

The other interpretation of course is that God, for whatever reason, chooses individuals like Abraham and protects them to accomplish His will. Abraham only had one purpose, that God was going to make a great nation through him. In my mind that's pretty amazing considering it is God who initiates the process. God came to Abraham and Noah, not the other way around. The scriptures says this is what happened. There is no indication that God looked down a "time tunnel" to see if they would have faith to the end of their days.

86 posted on 01/22/2005 7:49:18 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Besides, faith is a gift from God so whose faith is it anyway?

Where do you get the idea that faith is a gift from God?

In my mind that's pretty amazing considering it is God who initiates the process. God came to Abraham and Noah, not the other way around. The scriptures says this is what happened. There is no indication that God looked down a "time tunnel" to see if they would have faith to the end of their days.

Who ever said that God didn't initiate salvation?

God always initiates, but man has to freely respond.

And all men are able to respond if they will.

Stop setting up straw men, no one on these threads has ever stated that man can do anything for his salvation except accept it as a free gift (Jn.1:12) or reject it (Jn.3:36)

105 posted on 01/22/2005 10:47:39 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: HarleyD
The problem is did God see they would "work" for Him and declared them righteous?

Also, faith is not a work (Rom.4)

God saw that they would have faith and their works would follow that faith.(James 2:21-22)

112 posted on 01/22/2005 11:02:36 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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