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To: Buggman; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; Corin Stormhands
Sorry, OP, but Paul disagrees with you. Given the choice between your definition and his . . .

Nope, he doesn't.

You're attempting to re-create the False Dichotomy between Paul and James asserted by many anti-nomians.

But I say to you, that there is no Dichotomy, and that Faith without Works, is Dead.

True Faith, is a Working Faith.

"Lordship Salvation" is the only kind of Salvation. Messiah is both Savior and Commander -- the two Offices cannot be separated. There is no True Faith, without Obedience. And Obedience is a Verb. An Act. A Work.

Paul refers to those who would attempt to rely upon Good Works without Faith -- an earned salvation. He rightly denies such Dead Works as being of any Salvific Benefit.

But Salvation is not by Good Works without Faith, but rather by the Good Work of Faith: a Volitional, Active, Obedient, Working, Decision of Faith.

Do you Affirm, or Deny, that True Faith involves a Volitional Mental Action, initiated by a Decision of Will?

Best, OP

855 posted on 01/28/2005 7:29:57 AM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

Isn't Heretical Arminianism redundant? ;-)


856 posted on 01/28/2005 7:44:58 AM PST by CARepubGal (Unitarian Universalism is atheism for people who feel guilty about sleeping in on Sunday.)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; Corin Stormhands
Nope, he doesn't.

Most certainly he does, multiple times. In fact, the very centerpiece of Paul's soteriology (and the Scripture's, by extension) is that trusting God for your salvation stands in opposition to earning His favor by working.

You're attempting to re-create the False Dichotomy between Paul and James asserted by many anti-nomians.

OP, did you even read my previous post to you (#650) before writing your reply? In point of fact, I quoted James to explain what Paul was referring to by "work of faith" in 1 Thess. 1:5, so how can I be recreating a false dichotomy? Further, as I explained in post #793 in regards to the relationship between baptism (a work) and faith:

The reconciling point between us is, I believe, James 2, which explains that saying that we trust God without a willingness to do His will (i.e. good works) is useless. It'd be like Abraham saying he trusted the Lord but refusing to leave Haran. Or to use a modern example, for me to say I trust you to catch me in one of those team-building exercises where you fall backwards and rely on another person to catch you, only I refuse to fall back--clearly, a trust that isn't willing to act isn't really trust.
And to paraphrase my post #791:
Again, I'm not preaching against doing good works, and if someone claimed to be saved by faith but never demonstrated it in their actions I'd have my doubts. But one shouldn't put the cart either in front of or beside the horse. The Bible is clear that faith results in salvation which results in good works, not that faith plus good works results in salvation or that faith is a good work that results in salvation.
The "act" of becoming saved is nothing more than choosing to trust God's provision of your salvation after He has taken the initiative in reaching you (i.e. through the Holy Spirit). However you want to twist it, the Bible is clear that God does not consider that trust a "work" in the sense that He considers giving to charity a work, for example. However, having put your trust in God, the process of sanctification--being conformed into the image of Jesus--begins, and it is in that process that our faith produces good works.

Do you Affirm, or Deny, that True Faith involves a Volitional Mental Action, initiated by a Decision of Will?

I wholeheartedly affirm it. What I deny is that the Bible teaches that that mental "action" constitutes a "work" that "earns" salvation. It is abundantly clear on this point:

But to him working, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt. But to him not working, but believing on Him justifying the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom. 4:4-5)

For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. (Eph. 2:8-9)

Once again, we see that your Calvinism must depart from the plain truth of the Scripture in order to sustain itself. It bears noticing that you've not even attempted to deal with the above passages, which I also cited in my previous post to you. Simply put, you cannot, not without amending your human tradition that somehow even trusting God is a work.
860 posted on 01/28/2005 8:33:27 AM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
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