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To: Buggman

I have only one response to this, and it is something I have repeated on here several times, and I will make this the last one.

The Bible, which is the Word of God, is trustworthy. The Bible states that baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). In the Greek, this is the same exact structure as is used in Matthew 26:28, where Christ says that His blood is shed for the remission of sins. I don't think you, or anyone, would ever dare say that Christ did not shed His blood for the remission of sins. And yet, you claim that baptism is not for the the remission of sins, even though the exact same language is used in both cases. That, my friend, is a grave misuse of Scripture.


792 posted on 01/27/2005 9:44:00 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
And yet, you claim that baptism is not for the the remission of sins, even though the exact same language is used in both cases. That, my friend, is a grave misuse of Scripture.

No. I claim that the Bible, the reliable Word of God, also says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" (Jn. 3:16). It also says,

For if Abraham was justified by works, he has a boast; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness." But to him working, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt. But to him not working, but believing on Him justifying the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom. 4:2-5)
And again, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).

The reconciling point between us is, I believe, James 2, which explains that saying that we trust God without a willingness to do His will (i.e. good works) is useless. It'd be like Abraham saying he trusted the Lord but refusing to leave Haran. Or to use a modern example, for me to say I trust you to catch me in one of those team-building exercises where you fall backwards and rely on another person to catch you, only I refuse to fall back--clearly, a trust that isn't willing to act isn't really trust.

In like fashion, a person claiming to trust Christ for his salvation and remission of sins but who refuses baptism for some reason isn't extending his trust into a public action--so exactly how much trust is he showing? However, a person who puts their faith in Jesus but who dies in route to his or her baptism (and I know of at least one case where this has happened, and there are certainly others) isn't going to die in their sins and go to hell.

If you think otherwise, you've replaced a salvation dependent on receiving God's gift in trust with one that is works-based, requiring a sacrament. And that, my friend, is truly teaching another gospel than what Paul and the Apostles taught, as the above quotes show.

793 posted on 01/27/2005 10:04:13 AM PST by Buggman (Your failure to be informed does not make me a kook.)
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