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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Worthynews.com ^ | July 11th, 1875 | D. L. Moody

Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe

Jesus Christ is calling you ...

What Must I Do To Be Saved?

Dwight Lyman Moody's Last Sermon in London. Preached in Camberwell Hall, Sunday Evening, July 11th, 1875.

Suppose you do not want to hear a sermon (on this last night) so much as you want to know how to be saved. I want, if I can, to answer that question, "What must I do to be saved?" There is no question that can come before us in this world that is so important; and I think that there is not a man in this audience to-night who does not feel interested in it.

I heard a man, when he was going out the other night, saying: "I do not believe in sudden conversion. I do not believe what the preacher said to-night, that a man could come in here a sinner, and go out a Christian." Now, I want to say that I do not believe in any other conversion. I do not believe that there ever has been a conversion in the world that was not instantaneous, and I want you to mark this: not but what many cannot tell the day nor the hour when they were converted. I will admit that: they may not know the time; but that does not change the great fact that there was a time when they passed from death unto life; that there was a time when they were born [ABCOG: begotten] into the kingdom of God. There must have been a minute when their name was written in the Book of Life. There must have been a time when they were ere lost, and a time when they were saved; but we may not be conscious when the change takes place. I believe the conversion of some is like the rising of the sun, and of others like the flashing of a meteor. But both are instantaneous, really, in the sight of God. There must be a time when life begins to rise; when the dead soul begins to live.

Now, this evening I want to take up some of the Bible illustrations. In the first place, there is the ark. There was a minute when Noah was outside of the ark, and another minute when he was inside. And, bear in mind, it was the ark that saved Noah: it was not his righteousness; it was not his feelings; it was not his tears; it was not his prayers. It was the ark that saved him. If he had tried to make an ark of his feelings, or of his prayers, or of his life, he would have been swept away: he would have been drowned with the rest. But, you see, it was the ark that saved him.

When I was in Manchester, I went into the gallery one Sunday night to have a talk with a few inquirers; and while I was talking, a business man came in, and took his seat on the outskirts of the audience. I think, at first, he had come merely to criticize, and that he was a little skeptical. At last I saw he was in tears. I turned to him, and said, " My friend, what is your difficulty?" "Well," he said, "Mr. Moody, the fact is, I cannot tell." I said, "Do you believe you are a sinner?" He said, "Yes; I know that." I said, "Christ is able to save you"; and I used one illustration after another, but he did not see it. At last I thought of the ark, and I said: "Was it Noah's feelings that saved him? Was it Noah's righteousness that saved him, or was it the ark?" "I see it, now," said he; "I see it." He got up and shook hands with me, and said: "Good-night: I must go. I have to go away by the train to-night; but I was determined to be saved before I went. I see it now."

A few days after, he came and touched me on the shoulder, and said, "Do you know me? " I said, "I know your face, but do not remember where I have seen you." He said, "Do you not remember the illustration of the ark? I said, " Yes." "It has been all light ever since," said he. "I understand it now. Christ is the Ark; He saves me; and I must get inside Him." When I went down to Manchester again, and talked to the young friends there, I found he was the brightest light among them.

Let me take another illustration. There was the blood in Goshen. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." Now He does not say, "When I see Moses' feelings, or the feelings of the people, I will pass over you"; or, "When I see you praying and weeping, I will pass over you"; but, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." It was the blood that saved them, not their righteousness. And a little child by that blood in Goshen was just as safe as Moses or Aaron or Joshua or Caleb. It was the blood that saved them. Look! there is the Jew taking the hyssop. He dips it in the blood, and strikes it on the doorpost. One minute it is not there: the next it is there. The moment the blood is there they are saved. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." Some people say, "If I were only as good as that minister I should feel so safe" or, "If I were only as good as that mother in Israel who has been praying fifty years for the poor and unfortunate, should I not feel very safe? " My friends, if you are behind the blood, you are as safe as any man or woman who has been praying for fifty years. It is not their righteousness and good works that are going to save them. They never saved any one. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." [ABCOG: Moody understands "pass over" to mean "bypass". It can also mean "hover over to protect"] And when I am sheltered behind the blood, then I am saved; and if I am not sheltered behind the blood, I am not saved. That was instantaneous, was not it? God says, "When I see the blood, it shall be a token, and I will not enter." Death came down and passed over Egypt; and where the blood was on the doorpost he passed by; but where the blood could not be found, in he went and took the victim away. The great palaces could not keep out death; wealth and position could not keep out death. He went and took the Crown Prince of Egypt; he took the richest and the poorest, the highest and the lowest. Death makes no distinction, except a man is behind the blood.

My friends, be wise to-night, and get behind the blood. The blood has been shed. The blood is on the mercy-seat; and while it is there you can be saved. God is imputing to His Son your trespasses and sins. He says, "I will look at the blood on the mercy-seat." Press in, my friends; make haste and get in tonight; for the Master of the house will rise up by-and-by and shut to the door, and then there will be no hope.

Take another case. When Israel went over Jordan, God told Joshua to have six cities of refuge; three on each side of Jordan. They were to be built on a hill, where they could be seen at a great distance, and the gates were to be kept open day and night. All obstacles were to be kept out of the way, the highway was to be kept in repair, the bridges and everything in good condition, so that nothing should hinder a poor man flying to the city of refuge. If a man killed another in those days, it was considered a great disgrace if the nearest relative did not take vengeance. "An eye for an eye, and a booth for a tooth." If a man killed another, the next kinsman was bound to put him to death. But if he could escape to a city of refuge he was tried, and if it was found he had not intentionally killed the man, he might live.

Now for my illustration. Suppose I have killed a man. I am out away in the woods working, and my axe slips out of my hand, and kills the man working with me. I know that his kinsman, his brother, is not far away. The news will soon reach him that I have killed his brother. What shall I do? I start for the city of refuge, over there away on the hill, ten miles off. I run - and we are told that in those days there used to be signposts with the word " Refuge," written in great red letters, so that a man might read as he ran; he need not stop. I have been told that there was a finger pointing towards the city, and a man who could not read might see the hand. A man does not have to learn to read before he can be saved. I see that hand; it is pointing to the city of refuge. The gate is wide open, but it is ten miles away. I leap over the highway. I do not look behind, to the right hand or to the left. I do not listen to this man or to that man, but, like John Bunyan, I put my fingers in my ears. The avenger has drawn his sword, and is on my track. I leap over into the highway; and, pretty soon, I can hear him behind me, Away I go, over that bridge, across that stream, up that mountain, along that valley, - but I can hear him coming nearer and nearer. There is the watchman; I can see him on the wall of the city. He gives notice to the inhabitants that a refugee is coming. I see the citizens on the wall of the city watching, and when I get near I hear them calling, "Run, run! Escape, escape! He is very near you! Run! escape!" I press on; leap through the gate of the city; and at last I am safe. One minute I am outside, and the next I am inside. One minute I am exposed to that sword; it may come down upon me at any minute: the next minute I am safe. Do I feel any difference? I feel I am behind the walls: that is the difference. It is a fact. There I am. The avenger can come up to the gates of the city, but he cannot come in. He cannot lay his sword upon me. The law of the land shields me now. I am under the protection of that city; I have saved my life; but I had no time for lingering.

A great many of you are trying to get into the city of refuge, and there are enemies trying to stop you, But do not listen to them. Your friends tell you to escape. Make haste! Delay not for a single moment!

In our country, before the war, when we had slavery, the slaves used to keep their eye on the north star. If a slave escaped to the Northern States, his old master could come and take him back into slavery. But there was another flag on American soil, and if they could only get under that flag they were for ever free. It is called the Union Jack. If they could only get as far north as Canada they were free; therefore they kept looking towards the north star. But they knew if they only got into the Northern States, there might be some one ready to take them back. So it is with every poor sinner who wants to come to Christ. Many men do all they can to hinder him; others will cheer him on. Let us help every man towards the north star. A man has escaped: perhaps he swims across the Mississippi river, or crosses the Ohio river in a little canoe. The master hears of it, and he takes his hounds and sets them on his track, and begins to hunt him down. The slave hears the hounds; and he knows that his master is coming to take him back to slavery. The line is a mile or two away. He escapes as fast as he can. He runs with all his might for the frontier, over hedges and ditches and rivers; away he goes for Canada. By-and-by he comes in sight of Canada. He can see that flag floating in front of him; and he knows that if he can only cross the line before his master and the hounds overtake him, he will be free for ever.

How the poor black man runs! leaping and bounding along; and at last, with one bound, he goes over the line. He is free! One minute he is a slave; the next minute he is a free man, under the flag of Queen Victoria, the British flag! (cheers [ABCOG: by British crowd]) - don't cheer, my friends, but come to Christ - and your laws say that no man under that flag shall be a slave. One minute he is a slave; the next minute he is a free man. One minute it is possible for his old master to drag him back; the next minute he shouts, "Free!"

If Christ tells us that we are free, we are free. My friends, Christ is calling to-night. Get out of the devil's territory as quick as you can. No slave in the Southern States had so hard a master as yours, nor so mean a master as Satan. Take my advice tonight, and escape for the liberty of your soul.

I can imagine some of you saying "I do not see how a man is really going to be converted all at once." Let me give you another illustration. Look down there. There are two soldiers. Now, if you bring those soldiers up to this platform, and ask them how they became soldiers, they will tell you this - that one moment they were citizens, and the next minute soldiers. What was it that made them soldiers? It was when they took the Queen's shilling. The moment they received that shilling they ceased to be citizens, and they became soldiers. Before they received that shilling they could go where they pleased; the next minute they came under the government and under the regulations of the army, and they must go where Queen Victoria sends them. They did not have to wait for the uniform. The minute they received the shilling they became soldiers. What made them soldiers? Receiving the shilling. What makes a man a Christian? Receiving Christ. "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not: but as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God."

Now, the gift of God is eternal life. Who will have the gift to-night? When I was down in Manchester I asked that question, and a man shouted in the meeting, "I will! " Who will have it now? Is not there some man here in London, as there was in Manchester, who will say that he will have the gift? Is it not a wonder to have to plead with so many to take the gift? "The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life." Who will have the gift now? (Many responses of "I will"; "I will.")

I can imagine one man down there who says "How about repentance? How about getting into the ark or the city of refuge before repentance?" My friend, let me ask you what is repentance? It is right-about-face! I think these soldiers understand that expression. Some one has said that every one is born with his back to God, and that conversion turns him right round. If you want to be converted, and want to repent, I will tell you what you should do. Just get out of Satan's service, and get into the Lord's. Leave your old friends, and unite yourself with God's people.

In a few days, if nothing happens, I expect to go to Liverpool. If, when I am in the train, my friend Mr. Shipton says, "Moody, you are going in the wrong train, - that train is going to Edinburgh" - I should say, "Mr. Shipton, you have made a great mistake; somebody told me the train was going to Liverpool. You are wrong, Mr. Shipton; I am sure you are wrong." Then Mr. Shipton would say, "Moody, I have lived here forty years, and I know all about the trains. He must have been very ignorant or very vicious who told you that train goes to Liverpool." Mr. Shipton at last convinces me, and I get out of that train and get into the one going to Liverpool.

Repentance is getting out of one train and getting into the other. You are in the wrong train; you are in the broad path that takes you down to the pit of hell. Get out of it to-night. Right-about-face! Who will turn his feet towards God? "Turn ye, for why will ye die?" In the Old Testament the word is "turn." In the New Testament the word is "repent." "Turn ye, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" God does not want any man in this audience to perish, but He wants all to be saved. You can be saved now if you will.

There is another illustration I wish I had time to dwell upon and that is about looking. There is that serpent in the wilderness. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man also be lifted up, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Look here! Just give me your attention for a few minutes. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." How long does it take a man to believe? Or, if you will, how long does it take a man to look? Some people say they believe in educating people to be Christians. How long do you educate children to look? You hear the mother say, "Look," and the little child looks. It does not take a child three months to learn to look. Look and live! You need not go to college to learn how to look. There is not a child here but knows how to look. Christ says, "Look unto me; for I am [ABCOG: the way to] God, and there is none else."

There is the brazen serpent on the pole. God says to the children of Israel, who are dying of the bite of the fiery serpents - "Look, and live!"

Now, there is nothing in looking at a piece of brass which can cure the bite of a serpent. It is God who cures it, and the looking is the condition. It is obedience; and that is what God will have.

One moment the poor sufferer is dying; the next there comes a thrill of life through his veins, and he lives: he is well. My friends, look to Christ, and not to yourselves. That is what is the matter with a great many sinners; instead of looking to Christ, they are looking at the bite.

It is not looking to the wound; it is looking to the remedy. Christ is the remedy of sin. What you want is to look from the wound to the remedy - to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. Who will look tonight, and live? Turn your eye to Calvary; believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: 230; dwightlmoody; moody; salvation; transcript
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To: rdb3; fortheDeclaration
It has to do with your questioning whether someone is saved or not.

Have you ever questioned the salvation of anyone? If a Jehovah's Witness or a Christian Scientist, or a Mormon, or a Unitarian came on here and claimed to be saved, would you accept them at their word and then welcome them into your fellowship?

Or would you like to know the basis for their claim of salvation?

221 posted on 01/22/2005 3:19:25 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: nobdysfool; fortheDeclaration; xzins
No one preached the Gospel to me directly. I was brought to my knees by the Power of God, and saw the crucified Christ. There were no words, none were needed.

Would it be possible to elaborate your story a bit? You saw the crucified Christ? Was this a vision? Did Christ come to you in person?

222 posted on 01/22/2005 3:24:50 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: fortheDeclaration

"Water baptism is not a salvation issue but it is an obedience one, making a public declaration of one' faith."

YOU BET!

I wish others would see it that way. The Bible is clear on that ... .


223 posted on 01/22/2005 3:38:41 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain

Thank you, Becky for sharing those verses with me. None of the Arminians on this thread would share anything with me after one of them began to challenge the salvation of Calvinists in general and me in particular.

Of course, that does make me wonder what these Arminians think of what we Baptists are doing to reclaim the historic roots of our denomination from the Arminians and those who have watered down our Baptist fire and evangelical zeal.

In the service of the Lord,
Christian.


224 posted on 01/22/2005 3:42:15 PM PST by thePilgrim
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To: k2blader

It seems to me that it is right for any Christian to use discernment regarding tares that might be among the wheat.

The instructions of the parable, though, are to wait for the harvest and let the harvesters separate wheat from tare.

Nonetheless, we are to mark those who do not live as taught by the apostles. Some we are to avoid and some we are to attempt (humbly) to restore.

John has an interesting bit of advice: "they went out from us because they were not of us."


225 posted on 01/22/2005 3:44:33 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: k2blader
But I had, and continue to have, a very hard time understanding why anyone who claims to be a Christian would purposely and consistently target other (obvious) Christians as objects of slander, mockery, and/or other unloving actions.

Whoo, boy! You said a mouthful there. I see you have noticed the same thing I've been witnessing for a while here.

I won't complain, nor will I ever hit abuse. I just step back.


Real men don't whine.

226 posted on 01/22/2005 3:45:54 PM PST by rdb3 (The wife asked how I slept last night. I said, "How do I know? I was asleep!")
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To: thePilgrim; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
None of the Arminians on this thread

I did.

227 posted on 01/22/2005 3:46:27 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: RnMomof7

Imho, normally it's better to post a link than throw up something on a thread that's longer than the main article itself as that was. It disrupts the continuity of a thread and wears out the scrolling pinky. If your intent is to have everyone have to read it since it's so long, then it should be its own thread.

Luther's teaching on predestination is for the most part tangential to this thread.


228 posted on 01/22/2005 3:51:52 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: P-Marlowe

Thank you, P-Marlowe.

My 'vote' is: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved." Faith alone.

"Faith alone" does not imply that nothing has to follow. What follows faith in Christ will prove one's faith in Christ.


229 posted on 01/22/2005 3:53:59 PM PST by Mockingbird For Short ("An irreligious fanatic is just as dangerous as a religious fanatic.")
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To: xzins

Thank you for your reply, xzins. I appreciate your thoughts on many matters.


230 posted on 01/22/2005 4:02:29 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: k2blader

You are very kind. Thank you.

I, too, have more than my share of sin regularly to confess.


231 posted on 01/22/2005 4:06:58 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: Mockingbird For Short
What follows faith in Christ will prove one's faith in Christ.

James agrees with you: "And I will show my faith by my works."

232 posted on 01/22/2005 4:08:49 PM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: rdb3

I try to do that, but it's hard at times... I believe we as Christians *must* hold each other accountable because claiming Christ and acting otherwise weakens the Church and is simply not a good witness.

That said, typing comments on an internet forum is much different than dealing with people face to face, so it can be "easier" to post "regrettable" things. I guess what's important is that I mind my own (sometimes prideful) heart in these things...


233 posted on 01/22/2005 4:13:06 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: DAVEY CROCKETT

Thanks.


234 posted on 01/22/2005 4:59:16 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: RnMomof7
I am not going to whine and hit abuse though ...

You're just going to whine?

235 posted on 01/22/2005 5:26:02 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (All we have to decide is what to do with the crap that we are given...)
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To: xzins
The gospel of woody & I -- sounds like a Disney movie. :>)

If you're going to bring Disney into this, I think you have to bring out the big colorful fonts...

236 posted on 01/22/2005 5:29:02 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (All we have to decide is what to do with the crap that we are given...)
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To: thePilgrim; Religion Moderator
None of the Arminians on this thread would share anything with me after one of them began to challenge the salvation of Calvinists in general and me in particular.

We knew the game you were playing.

237 posted on 01/22/2005 5:30:37 PM PST by Corin Stormhands (All we have to decide is what to do with the crap that we are given...)
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To: k2blader; logos; DAVEY CROCKETT; JockoManning; auggy; JustPiper; Indie; 185JHP

Yes and no.

Probably more yes than no.

But it depends on a lot of factors.

1) What does it arise out of. The pharisees would likely have asserted that they were defending the faith and that their constructions on reality were more truly truest truth than any others. Christ had a different view. Christ, by definition, etc. was, of course, right.

2) Some such arises out of psychodynamic hurts, anger, bad-faith, arrogance etc. Not very admirable.

3) Some really do want to 'provide for every man, an answer' out of a mostly decent heart etc.

4) Even the chronically given to such may earnestly be trying to overcome in that area just as an alcoholic or overeater or workaholic etc. repeatedly fall and must, by grace and faith get up again and try again. Who amongst us have no besetting struggles? The attitude of the heart is likely a key and, of course, claiming the Blood covering as well as daily confession and repentance.

Certainly it's a troublesome thing for me.

Most of my life, I've been intense about spiritual matters and maybe a very few other issues.

Certainly my childhood psychodynamic factors were wrapped up in my presentation of myself and expressions on a range of issues and certainly the intensely felt issues. Such can still be overly common.

I like to think that 'providing to every man an answer' is the only reason for my fierceness but I know that's not entirely true.

I like to think that giving lurkers an alternative to some of the idiotic naysayer's statements is the major motivation--and perhaps that's mostly true most of the time. But it's not purely that, by any means.

I have humiliated myself over the years with my own flaws and sinfulness enough times--MOST OF THE TIME, IN MOST RESPECTS, IN MOST CONTEXTS, that what others think of me is not that big a deal. I know that praise of man or condenmnation of man are both fickle and miniscule in importance to what God thinks. Yet, even there, it's not 100% purely so.

I do have a fierce substrate down within somewhere which says that believers ought to stand up and be counted--ought to give plenty of evidence to be convicted of being Christians. I prefer that be based on Loving acts of kindness, gentleness, warmth, understanding and the like.

However, in a context where all manner of nonsense is being spouted--AND NO ONE ELSE IS STANDING UP FOR SANITY AND, TO ME, A MORE ACCURATE, MORE BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE, then something fairly fierce is likely to rise up within me. I don't think that part of me is all good or all bad. Still more of a mixture than I'd prefer.

Then, there's that therapist part of me . . . I've been on both sides and used both sides in all manner of family and couple therapy contexts. But I have most often ended up convinced that certain personalities are not likely to hear anything at all. BUT CERTAINLY THEY WILL NOT HEAR AND WILL JUST RUN OVER AND ABUSE ANYTHING KIND, GENTLE, WARM, ETC. The closest they will come to hearing anything is for someone to stand up to their intensity with something comparable.

I don't know that such a conviction is the most saintly or even the most accurate. However, I've had countless folks come back to me 5 and 10 years later and say something to the effect "I was soooo angry with you Dr Q. I could have strangled you or slugged you so easily. I almost did. But what you said so forcefully to me proved true over the next years and brought a lot of life and good change to me and to my family. Thanks." That kind of reinforces such a view and habit on my part; rightly or wrongly.

I've often complained to The Lord about Him not making me like various close loved ones. I'm thinking particularly of a dear Christian friend in Taipei. She's the paragon picture of grace and graciousness [to everyone but me, for some reason]. Virtually everyone who knows her and meets her thinks she almost walks on water and is certainly the best example of Christ-likeness they know of. She's a strong personality but it rarely comes across to others as a fierce strength--though underneath, it very much is.

But I've often been wistful if not outright jealous and covetous of such a personna. But God has persistently been very stern with me when I've whined along those lines. He keeps insisting that he made me such a strange bird of rare plumage for His purposes and that He rather enjoys me the way He made me. Furthermore, that I'm to shut up about such issues and get on down the road about The Master's business as lain out before me and along the lines He designed me to handle such tasks with.

And, attempting more and more to obey accordingly, I've made progress on that score. And I have even been able to increasingly enjoy being me as He made me and as He seems to enjoy using this foolish blunt tool of The Lord to . . . afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted.

As lots of psych tests have affirmed, I hate conflict, interpersonal tension etc. But I don't shrink from it. If no one else will wade in where a stance is begging to be made, I'm like to do so, if nearby.

Therefore what? PBPWMGINFWMY. Please Be Patient With Me; God Is Not Finished With Me, Yet.

The intensity is not likely to go away this side of Heaven.

I am, however, enormously more patient than in earlier years. AND, there are whole long lists of things I just don't get or feel bothered about at all--just too inconsequential.

But there are some fools I still have trouble suffering at all and certainly gladly.

But, I'm trying harder to avoid allowing my peace to be disturbed by anyone--even a foolish pharisee hell-bent on contrariness.

Besides, most such people would believe differently if they had seen and had the experiences I've seen and had.

Forgiveness and understanding are virtually always in order.

And, I'm trying harder to put my fingers where my heart is on such matters.

But I shall likely fail again more than a few times between now and The Rapture or my graduation.

I beg your forgiveness--and apologize and repent for any and all unfitting combativeness etc.

On the other hand, Sometimes, it IS FITTING to grab the jawbone of an ass; to declare, where is The Lord God of Elijah--and let fly.

I'm still learning to do so in wisdom, balance and fitting language.

Thanks for your thought-provoking post.

Blessings,


238 posted on 01/22/2005 5:33:16 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: RnMomof7

This is an excellent article and reinforces many of the things I have looked through and tried to understand. I feel like a real Reformer now. :O)


239 posted on 01/22/2005 5:33:50 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: thePilgrim

Watered down your Baptist fire and evangelical zeal?

Not my observation and experience LOL!

Actually, it's the Calvinists usually who have been derisive, castigating, dismissive etc. at the thought that any of we Arminians were really saved!

I don't recall questioning any Calvinist's Salvation.

I do hope you realize that the Calvinist etc. ping list is a collection of extremely fierce characters who tend to see THEIR construction on reality as the ABSOLUTELY 1,000% TRULY TRUEST TRUE TRUTH fresh from--what--Mt Blanc--whatever Calvin's Mt Sinai would have been, I suppose.

That level of arrogance gets to be more than a little grating. All the more so at some of the outlandish things they say.


240 posted on 01/22/2005 5:37:28 PM PST by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING IT'S POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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