Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe
Is he talking about being "saved" or "salvation?" They're two very different things.
Just go to the File menu and choose Save, or press Control and S at the same time.
Believe, repent of your sins, confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God, and be baptized for the remission of your sins.
At which point are you "saved".
After number 2
Great question. I'm going gingerly with #1. Christ repeatedly said that faith saved various people. And there was the Good Thief, of course. Somehow my slightly Reformed mind wanted to bring Grace into this but I'll let others deal with that.
However, I think all the items are things Christians need to do if they have the opportunity.
A person is saved after doing as has been commanded in the New Testament. This includes all the items I listed. Since baptism is for the remission of sins, and you must have your sins forgiven and removed before you can become a Christian, it seems only logical that it could not come before that step.
So the thief on the cross died in his sins? What a shame.
First, The New Covenant did not apply to the thief on the cross. He lived under the Old Covenant. Second, Jesus had the power to forgive sins while on the Earth. Try again.
My sense has always been that baptism is a sign of taking on the new covenant with God.
It does not bode well for a supposed "believer" whose first act as a Christian is to disobey one of the Lord's instructions and to reject the covenant sign.
I would call into question the legitimacy of their faith....in the absence of extenuating circumstances that made the baptism impossible or too hard to do at that time.
The thief was not under the old covenant. The old covenant ended with John the Baptist.
John the Baptist's purpose was to point the way to Christ. He did baptize for remission of sins, but the New Covenant was still not in effect until Christ's ultimate sacrifice for our sins. My point is that the argument using the "Thief on the Cross" to show that baptism is not required for salvation is a baseless argument.
Does He not still have that power? Or is that a temporal function reserved for priests or something like that?
Of course Christ still has the power to forgive sins. No man has that power. A sinner has his/her sins forgiven by the Blood of Christ, which we come in contact with by doing as he has commanded.
I think we come in contact with the Blood of Christ through faith.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life” (John 5:24);
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life” (John 6:47);
“Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God” (1 John 5:1).
Imagine the situation of a person who came to Christ through faith and then was killed before baptism could be made. Even the Roman Catholics, I believe, consider that faith in Christ and true repentance will allow one to be saved at or near the point of death. And they understand baptism to be effectual in and of itself.
(RC friends, help me out here.)
I, nor anyone else, can say what God will do in such "hard cases" as you mentioned in the last paragraph. It is not for us to decide.
It is important that we understand that scripture must be looked at as a whole, and not just verses here and there. There are verses that teach belief or faith leads to salvation. There are verses that teach that repentance leads to salvation. There are verses that teach that confession leads to salvation. There are also verses that teach that baptism leads to salvation.
I ask you one question: Do these verses contradict one another, or do they as a whole, teach all that is needed to accept God's gift of salvation?
Certainly a good question, and one upon which we disagree as a matter of perspective.
It's like asking "what must I do to grow old?"
The Arminian would answer, "Eat healthy foods, don't smoke, exercise regularly, see your doctor annually, avoid extremes, be happy, and don't walk in front of a bus."
The Calvinist would answer, "Eat healthy foods, don't smoke, exercise regularly, see your doctor annually, avoid extremes, be happy, don't walk in front of a bus...AND all these things will originate with and be accomplished by the grace of God alone who has ordained for you (and all creatures) from before the foundation of the world every day and minute and moment of your life, whether you acknowledge this fact or not. Because ultimately God creates everything, knows everything, and if He wants something, it is already cemented in time and space by His pre-existing will for that time and space."
Arminians demand this supernatural working of God's being be understood completely by man. Scripture explains we can never understand completely.
But that shouldn't excuse us from making the mistake of demanding autonomy when God clearly says we have none, and that ultimately salvation, as well as the length of our lives, depend not on our carnal, fallen nature, but upon His unerring, unbounded plan for His creation alone.
If something occurs, God wanted it to occur. If something doesn't occur, God didn't want it to occur. The alternative is meaningless from the perspective of the God who has revealed Himself in Scripture.
"Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you." -- Joshua 23:15
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." -- Isaiah 45:7.
"I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right." -- Isaiah 45:19.
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure." -- Isaiah 46:9-10.
God's will is ultimately behind every stroke of life as we know it -- every leaf that falls, every baby born, every hiccup and heartbeat.
"Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth." -- Mark 9:23
And if we can believe, it is only through the gift of God's grace upon the fallen sinner.
First grace; then belief. Otherwise it's a work of man's ability to believe; something none of us has unless and until He turns us from darkness towards the light.
Having believed in both perspectives, I can say with my own certainty, life is surer, happier, more confident and less stressful when I understand that everything -- my salvation, my family's salvation and every day our lives -- is secured by God's steady hand alone who has promised us eternal peace because His Son has counted us among His sheep.
But life is not one day longer than He wills, regardless of buses, bullets or Atkins.
Michael Horton, in his White Horse Inn series Reforming Worship, put it this way: God is a machine, predictable. If we do x, God will do y. God is reacting to what we do.
The image is one of God struggling to keep up...
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Just grow old and thou shalt maybe you just might be saved...
No, of course not. But it seems clear that while nothing can be accomplished without faith, the other items on the list have no meaning in and of themselves if faith is lacking.
Now, how faith comes about in the first place is another thread!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.