The Confederate battle flag:a racist symbol or proud history?

arbiter ^ | 20-Jan-2005 | Bill Ward

[PretzeLogic]

Assuming for a moment that the South Carolina secession was actually legal...

Let us assume for a moment that any sovereign State that voluntarily joined the union can voluntarily withdraw. In that case, Lincoln's aggressive actions with respect to Sumter were "illegal".

From this point of view, Lincoln and other politicians from the northern States recognized an opportunity to gain control over the resources in the southern States. Clearly, the war that followed was one of conquest by wealthy business interests in the north and their politicians.

[Conspiracy Guy]

You should have applied sooner!

[Non-Sequitur]

It was only after the Civil War ended that it became illegal to secede from the United States.

Unilateral secession as practiced by the southern states was illegal before the rebellion and it is still illegal.

South Carolina was within it's right to secede. Just like America was within it's right to leave England.

Seems to me that the 'secession' from Great Britain was followed by an 8 year period known as the Revolutionary War.

What must be remembered is that South Carolina gave the union fair warning and asked like any other nation that the troops be removed.

And again, since Sumter was the property of the U.S. government what right did South Carolina have to demand it be turned over?

And for that matter, why did the north invade Virginia?

Becuase Virginia had joined the forces of the rebellion then waging war against the United States.

[Non-Sequitur]

Let us assume for a moment that any sovereign State that voluntarily joined the union can voluntarily withdraw. In that case, Lincoln's aggressive actions with respect to Sumter were "illegal".

OK, I'll play along. Assume that the South Carolina secession was legal. How were Lincoln's actions illegal? Sumter belonged to the U.S. South Carolina had no legal rights to it at all. It could only be disposed of through congressional action. Absent that then Lincoln was well within his duties as president to keep the garrison from being starved into submission.

[Non-Sequitur]

Now that is stupid!

Like I said, I don't have your slant on things.

[PretzeLogic]

Absent that then Lincoln was well within his duties as president to keep the garrison from being starved into submission.

Lincoln could and should have ordered his army to quit the garrison and move to a location within the border of the United States.

[Non-Sequitur]

Lincoln could and should have ordered his army to quit the garrison and move to a location within the border of the United States.

Why?

[x]

When you have to write or post long articles every month about how a flag isn't a symbol of racism and hate, it's probably a sign that that banner has already been too badly compromised.

Plenty of brave men fought and died under this flag. It's a part of some people's history. But if you want to fly it now you'd have to write something close to a dissertation about why it's not a symbol of oppression, and you'd have a hard time doing so. The associations are that strong. Everyone knows that, consequently the Germans have come up with another flag.

I'm not sure that we really need regional flags when we have national, state, and sometimes even city flags. But if you need one it shouldn't be hard to come up with one that reflects the desires of both Southern Whites and Blacks, Confederates and Unionists.

[PretzeLogic]

Lincoln could and should have ordered his army to quit the garrison and move to a location within the border of the United States.

Why?

Because it was the right thing to do. Forcing allegiance to a single individual or to a state is tyranny. On a smaller scale, it is called slavery.

[JCISLORD]

Since Germany has never been a part of the United States and was not involved in OUR Civil War, your logic is questionable.

[Non-Sequitur]

On a smaller scale, it is called slavery.

As the people of South Carolina and the rest of the confederacy well knew. But regardless, why should Lincoln have turned over federal propery, uncompensated, to South Carolina?

[Charlespg]

Thats the Imperial German flag and has nothing to with racism, by the way a lot of northern towns and city's had covenants about not selling or leasing property to blacks or catholics

[antisocial]

We don't care if you don't want to fly our flag in New Jersey. But we don't need you dammyankees tellin' us not to fly it here in the South. I've got a 3'x 5' Battleflag flying this week to honor the Great Gen. Robert E. Lee (his birthday was Sat.)

[Charlespg]

These disscussions are just troll bait
most people north or south could not afford slaves
the Civil war really dates back John C Calhoun and the fight over nullfication