Once, again supposition.
The 20th century is not the 19th and Lincoln was dealing with different issues.
Historical context does matter.
And don't try to pretend that tax bills originate with the President, they don't. Don't try to change the subject. YOU attempted to pretend that Lincoln had nothing to do with all those tax bills he championed and signed. I caught you and called you to task on that, never once asserting that the tax bills originate with the president but rather only that he occupies what is probably the single the most dominant office in passing tax policy - the presidency.
Lincoln was an ex-Whig.
They were strong believers in a weak Presidency, letting the Congress do what it was suppose to do.
They saw their role as a check, not as a substitute.
Had not the war broken out, Lincoln may have been one of this nations weakest Presidents, instead of one the strongest.
A Republican controlled Congress would have called the shots and Lincoln would have simply made sure that the bills were constitutional.
Whigs did not believe in vetoing unless absolutely necessary.
So your complaint about Lincoln as a high taxer and driving the tax issue goes against the very political philosopy he adhered to.
He may have supported high tariff's but he would not have seen his role as interfering with the Congress in their role of making the tariff bill.
Oh, yea they gave FDR a real hard time. A harder time than anybody in yankeeland ever gave him!
It is not the Yankee's that we are discussing, it is the so-called conservative South, that had no qualms about FDR, Truman or Stephenson and for 6 states LBJ.
For the Confederate states, hatred is more important then truth, hence their resistance to anything Republican for 100 years.
The only reason the South is going GOP now is because so many Yankees have moved down here.
Real conservatives, like voting for Stephenson against Ike. Actually the south split between Stephenson and Eisenhower.
As they did with Goldwater.
Still-Stephenson!?
And only five Southern 'conservative' states supported him out of the 11 Confederate ones. ...as opposed to ZERO states out of all of yankeeland, which LBJ carried unanimously and without effort. So?
And only Southern states supporting Stevenson (no Yankee ones-with the possible exception of his home state, which I do not recall was)
So, he favored high taxes throughout his career exactly as I said. What excise taxes did he get passed? Several dozen during his presidency and several "internal improvements" taxes in the Illinois legislature.
In a Democrat controlled state?
He must have a very powerful legislater.
Fact is, the 19th century was not the 20th and internal improvements done by state governments were legimate and one could be a conservative and support them.
Ike gave us the interstate highway system, would you regard him as liberal?
The income tax was an emergency one. It was drawn out, developed, and adjusted (in an upward direction) over his four years in office, outlived him by six years, and served as a direct impetus for the establishment of the current income tax. That doesn't sound like an "emergency" to me. Nor does an "emergency" give Lincoln the power to directly violate the original constitution's prohibition on those types of taxes.
It was needed to fight a very costly war (ofcourse the South didn't have an income tax-or did they?)
It was ended.
And the fact that it was six years past his death shows that even his most severe critics cannot hold him responsible for it, or should I say, critics that have any sense.
So, they did end it. Under threat of a constitutional showdown, which lasted until Lincoln's successors mustered enough support to amend the constitution.
Getting any tax is removed is tough.
It was hard to get rid of wage and price controls after WW2 also.
Government does not like to give up its revenue.
And so they did end it. ...quoth the broken record who cannot/refuses to think for himself.
No, repeating an historical reality that you can't seem to recognize.
Alot like the South losing a war over a hundred years ago and still arguing about it!
They were constitutional. So is the income tax today. But that doesn't make Bill Clinton's tax hike any less repulsive. They were constitutional. ...quoth the broken record who cannot/refuses to think for himself.
Once again facts are still facts, no matter what you think about them.
That is why we elect people, to make decisions for us and if they make bad ones we get rid of them.
Clinton paid for his tax raise by losing control of Congress.
Totally constitutional as the GOP taking the power away from them.
That is how a republican gov't is meant to operate, on the basis of elections, not secession or threats of secession.
Lincoln was a candidate from a major party, the examples you give are goofy. No. He was a candidate from a regional party that had no organization or membership in most of the southern states.
Gee, and he won the presidency, imagine that!
He was a major candidate.
Were any of the other canidates kept off any other state ballots?
Well, I guess the people wanted him then. So you are saying that we have no basis for complaining about all the insidious things FDR did?
We have nothing to complain about if they were legal and constitutional.
We can do what we can to change them, but complain about them is futile if they were not criminal.
And yet we still haven't undone all the damage he did, so once again using your own illogic, who are you to complain about Clinton?
Where in my posts have I complained about Clinton?
You keep bringing him up, not me.
You left out what I said about Clinton, was that an accident or deliberate on your part. I did not say 'so'
So? ...quoth the broken record who cannot/refuses to think for himself. Well, back then the facts were pretty sketchy. Nah. General Taylor was very clear where he established his encampment, kept track of where he sent his patrols, and sent direct reports of what happened back to Washington.
Well, even today, it is conceded that there was some dispute over the borders, and the Mexicans saw that land as being Mexican.
Well, that is the how the history books have it written. There was some doubt when it happened however. Such as?
See above.
It ran into constitutional problems like so many other things Lincoln did. Lincoln's successors solved those problems by amending the constitution. And the tax was ended. ...quoth the broken record who cannot/refuses to think for himself.
Once, again a fact (you guys sure hate facts)
Why not? He gave us the first and got the ball rolling. Had Lincoln not given us an income tax its constitutionality would not have been challenged, meaning no 16th amendment would've been proposed, meaning no modern income tax. Because his tax ended ...quoth the broken record who cannot/refuses to think for himself.
A fact
Once again, the broken record refuses to think for himself.
Historical context does matter.
Evidently not to you. If you had your way we could just gloss over Lincoln's documented lifelong belief in tax hikes and pretend he wouldn't have kept that belief in his second term despite all evidence indicating that he would have.
Lincoln was an ex-Whig. They were strong believers in a weak Presidency, letting the Congress do what it was suppose to do.
And your example of this type of "weak" president is Abraham Lincoln? BWA-HAHAHAHAHA! Sure thing, ftD. And on that same note Hillary Clinton is a conservative! /sarcasm
A Republican controlled Congress would have called the shots and Lincoln would have simply made sure that the bills were constitutional.
Evidently not seeing as he signed many bills that were blatantly unconstitutional including the income tax.
So your complaint about Lincoln as a high taxer and driving the tax issue goes against the very political philosopy he adhered to.
Sorry to intrude upon your fantasy, but the reality of Abe Lincoln simply says otherwise. He was planning to push for a massive tariff hike whether there was a war or not and openly admitted that to his advisors and friends.
He may have supported high tariff's but he would not have seen his role as interfering with the Congress in their role of making the tariff bill.
His speech in Pittsburgh circa February 1861 where he pledges to push the tariff issue through congress says otherwise.
It is not the Yankee's that we are discussing, it is the so-called conservative South
And I cited some conservative southern movements against FDR that gave him more trouble than any yankee ever did.
The only reason the South is going GOP now is because so many Yankees have moved down here.
Utter nonsense just like everything else you spew. The yankee transplants tend to vote democrat and are the primary reason why the otherwise conservative state of Florida is close in so many elections. Just look at that state's district level voting patterns to see the truth. Florida's most conservative section is its panhandle, which is almost entirely native born Floridians or transplants from neighboring Georgia and Alabama. The "chad corridor" of Fort Lauderdale through West Palm Beach, OTOH (aka the place that gave us Robert Wexler) is heavy on yankee transplants (the geezers from New York who move down there) and votes Democrat.
Still-Stephenson!?
Still, Goldwater.
And only five Southern 'conservative' states supported him out of the 11 Confederate ones. ...as opposed to ZERO states out of all of yankeeland, which LBJ carried unanimously and without effort. So?
So, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If the south's record of voting Democrat prior to Goldwater is a basis for condemning them, yankeeland's unanimous support for the second biggest communist to ever run on a major ticket in 1964 is more than enough reason to condemn it. Furthermore, unlike Stephenson, LBJ actually got a chance to push his insidious programs through so the yankee states that elected him bear the blame for that as well.
In a Democrat controlled state?
Who said it was a Democrat state? Illinois had a sizable Whig party too from 1839 on and for many years in the late 1830's and early 1840's had no clear organized party system in its government.
He must have a very powerful legislater.
Evidently he was. In 1838 Lincoln even got the second highest number of votes for Speaker of the Illinois house and subsequently became one of the main Whig floor leaders.
Ike gave us the interstate highway system, would you regard him as liberal?
I already told you I regard Ike as a moderate. Robert Taft was the conservative at the time.
It was needed to fight a very costly war
The constitution is supreme, be it war or peace. Lincoln violated that constitution by imposing an income tax.
It was ended.
It was later restored.
Getting any tax is removed is tough.
So is amending the Constitution, yet they did just that so they could restore Saint Abe's income tax.
It was hard to get rid of wage and price controls after WW2 also.
That would've never been a problem had they not enacted them in the first place. Same goes for Abe's taxes.
Government does not like to give up its revenue.
And neither did Abe.