But there is no question of choosing between Israel and America, because we are on the same side. The American taxpayer gives more money to Africa than to Israel, penny for penny, our monetary support for Israel amounts to very little.
I wish Americans who are opposed to Israel would wake up to the fact that they are our allies in a region crawling with traitors, terrorists, and enemies. Perhaps you don't like Israel because they are Jews..but please, put aside this prejudice for the sake of our national security. It was not the Israelis who danced and cheered when we were attacked. Their enemies are our enemies, too. They could be very helpful to us in the war on terror, and they have a well-trained military accustomed to the tactics of islamic terrorists, the same people who would see of all us dead.
I realize this is off-topic a bit, but it makes me very sad to see conservatives acting like the leftists--they also hate Israel and wish them all dead.
Thanks for letting me vent.
I responded clearly, without mystery conditions, [nc #1524] "Yes, up to and including President. I would not mind Justice Thomas as Chief Justice, but my preference would be Justice Scalia."
I would equally vote for a Jewish candidate or a Black candidate or any other candidate.
In response, I posed a similar question to M. Espinola [nc #1524] "2) If an elected official has a proven conservative voting record would you still vote for them if they were an Arab American seeking higher office?"
M. Espinola finds himself incapable of providing a straight answer such as I provided to his question.
What M. Espinola [#1578] said was, "If the Arab American elected official supported Israel, of course I would vote for him."
What must the candidate pledge to show that he has "supported Israel?"
I asked a series of questions to find out, among them, "Does it mean providing military equipment and personnel to support Israel should Israel make a pre-emptive strike against an Arab nation..."
[M. Espinola #1673] Damn good idea, as in nuclear threatening, Persian Iran. Go IDF!!
In context, M. Espinola will not consider voting for any Arab-American candidate unless said candidate for UNITED STATES elective office first promises to support ISRAEL if Israel makes a PRE-EMPTIVE strike against an Arab nation and further pledges UNITED STATES troops and equipment to fight a war started by said PRE-EMPTIVE strike.
Note carefully that the condition is NOT if Israel is attacked and responds, but if Israel engages in a PRE-EMPTIVE strike.
If Israel expects U.S. military support, they had better provide the specifics of the need for their attack and request assurance of U.S. assistance before starting a shooting war.
We cannot promise that the full force of the U.S. MILITARY will be deployed based on a decision made by ANY foreign government.
[ariamne] But there is no question of choosing between Israel and America, because we are on the same side.
We are NOT always on the same side. We hold many many mutual interests. However, were we totally on the same side, and the interests of Israel and the United States always one and the same, Israel would never have had any Jonathan Pollard's committing espionage against the United States Government for the benefit of Israel.
[ariamne] Their enemies are our enemies, too.
Perhaps this is largely so. But the U.S. has huge business and national interests not shared by Israel. Many of their enemies sit on top of a huge pot of oil. A number of the rulers are propped up by the U.S. and other foreign interests. The U.S., among others, has a significant interest in keeping that oil flowing and keeping the price affordable. It is a fact of life that must be dealt with. We have, and will continue to have, significant dealings with Israel's enemies.
I have nothing against Israel, nor have I said one word against Israel. What I have spoken against is putting the interests of ANY foreign nation over the interests of the United States.
No candidate for elective office in the UNITED STATES should have to pledge U.S. MILITARY support for a PRE-EMPTIVE strike by any FOREIGN nation against a third nation.
While the USA, in its history, has entered into various Mutual Defense agreements, with mutual agreement to aid each other in case of attack upon any member of the agreement, I know of no instance where the USA publicly pledged its military support to another nation in the event the other nation unilaterally chose to make a pre-emptive strike upon a third nation. A treaty to such an effect would provide a foreign nation with the power to take the USA to war at their discretion.
The claim of M. Espinola that he would vote for an Arab-American candidate who publicly pledged such support is as meaningful as a pledge that one would support a Jewish candidate upon condition that he or she first pledges support for the right of return of Palestinians to Israel.
I suppose it is even possible to make a good sounding case that the Palestinians were there for a few thousand years, evacuated due to war, and should have a right to return to their homes. I am sure Israel would be quick to point out that such would be tantamount to Israeli suicide. If I recall correctly, this is approximately the impossible condition which Yasser Arafat used to frustrate peace talks. He would only agree to peace on the condition that Israel agree to commit suicide, however more nicely it may have been phrased.
No American who puts America first should have any problem condemning Jonathan Pollard who, as an American citizen, committed espionage for a foreign government. It does not matter that the foreign government was Israel. Jonathan Pollard was working against the interests of the United States.
I will yet again repeat the VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT submitted by the attorneys for the people of the UNITED STATES:
"The specific instances of damage to the national security caused by Mr. Pollard's offense will be described in a classified damage session affidavit to be submitted to the Court in camera. Generally, it can be said that the breadth and scope of the classified information compromised by Mr. Pollard is among the greatest of any espionage operation uncovered by Federal authorities. Thousands of pages of Top Secret and Sensitive Compartmented Information were sold to the Israelis by Mr. Pollard. As explained in detail in the government's in camera affidavit, Mr. Pollard's unauthorized disclosures have threatened the U.S. relations with numerous Middle East Arab allies, many of whom question the extent to which Mr. Pollard's disclosures of classified information have skewed the balance of power in the Middle East. Moreover, because Mr. Pollard provided the Israelis virtually any classified document requested by Mr. Pollard's coconspirators, the U.S. has been deprived of the quid pro quo routinely received during authorized and official intelligence exchanges with Israel, and Israel has received information classified at a level far in excess of that ever contemplated by the National Security Council. The obvious result of Mr. Pollard's largesse is that U.S. bargaining leverage with the Israeli government in any such further intelligence exchanges has been undermined. In short, Mr. Pollard's activities have adversely affected U.S. relations with both its Middle East Arab allies and the government of Israel."
[arianme] Perhaps you don't like Israel because they are Jews...
You assume a great deal. I have never said I do not like either Israel or Jews. I have said I place America first, ahead of Israel or Jews, or British or Irish or Russian, or Mexican or anyone else.
I have seen folks recently debating what fighting force was the best man-for-man and championing Confederates and Zulus if I recall correctly. A case could be made for the Israelis in their first couple of wars. Attacked the day it was born, Israel fought against great odds and prevailed. In another go-round, things were not going so well at the start and then it was turned around and again Israel prevailed. IIRC, a certain general named Ariel Sharon played a major part.
[ariamne] They could be very helpful to us in the war on terror, and they have a well-trained military accustomed to the tactics of islamic terrorists, the same people who would see of all us dead.
Their greatest assistance would probably be in the area of intelligence in their area of the world.