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To: lentulusgracchus
"Delivered a class-action conviction on treason charges against nine million people."

Does your figure include the four millions slaves in the south?

"In so saying, Grier admits that Lincoln (and he) have suspended the Constitution for the duration, and are appealing to the god of battle for vindication of their unconstitutional acts and their coercion of States, which under the Constitution they had no right to do, and which coercion and extraconstitutionality include Grier's decision."

"In war, the laws are silent." Even then, no one suspended the Constitution; however, the insurrectionists subjected themselves to the laws of war.

1,560 posted on 01/26/2005 9:00:54 AM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: capitan_refugio
"In war, the laws are silent." Even then, no one suspended the Constitution; however, the insurrectionists subjected themselves to the laws of war.

Yes, they want to hide behind a Constitution they themselves were violating with an illegal and immoral revolt.

1,570 posted on 01/26/2005 12:03:23 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: capitan_refugio; lentulusgracchus
[capitan_refugio #1560] "In war, the laws are silent."

The U.S. Constitution, according to the U.S. Supreme Court:

"The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people, equally in war and in peace, and covers with the shield of its protection all classes of men, at all times, and under all circumstances. No doctrine, involving more pernicious consequences, was ever invented by the wit of man than that any of its provisions can be suspended during any of the great exigencies of government. Such a doctrine leads directly to anarchy or despotism, but the theory of necessity on which it is based is false; for the government, within the Constitution, has all the powers granted to it, which are necessary to preserve its existence; as has been happily proved by the result of the great effort to throw off its just authority.''

Ex parte Milligan, 4 Wall. (71 U.S.) 2, 120-121 (1866).

1,571 posted on 01/26/2005 12:20:58 PM PST by nolu chan
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To: capitan_refugio
Does your figure include the four millions slaves in the south?

Read Justice Grier's opinion in the Prize Cases. He spared nobody living in the "enemy territory", even noting the presence of Unionists living there -- he declared the entire South a free-fire zone.

1,601 posted on 01/27/2005 2:23:43 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: capitan_refugio
...the insurrectionists subjected themselves to the laws of war.

There was no insurrection. Secession is not insurrection, nor is it rebellion. There is no authority, none, higher than the People, save the God of Abraham. Take a note.

Second, Lincoln subjected them to the laws of war, not they. He declared war on Virginia and North Carolina, for openers, on April 27th. And Northern war preparations, which are never discussed in detail by persons holding copies of the Constitution in their hands, was well advanced before Sumter, as per our discussion upthread about how it was that the Fourth and Sixth Massachusetts already had their boots on when Lincoln delivered his proclamation calling for war on the South.

Notice also that Lincoln, in his proclamation calling for troops, mentions past grievances against the South -- this is clearly a call for a vindictive, punitive war and an appeal, not to law and order, but to animosity. So don't give me that pious crap.

1,602 posted on 01/27/2005 2:30:52 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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