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To: Non-Sequitur
[Me] And there was no rebellion

[You] Yes there was.

Against whom? The United States? Where was the shooting?

We're still talking about Virginia in April and May, 1861 -- where was the shooting? What rebellion?

Secession isn't rebellion, secession is secession.

Your saying there was a rebellion imports that the other States have the right to forbid a State to secede......to ratify and amendment to the Constitution (because it might "impact" the forbidding State[s]......to vote to admit another State (same reason)......or to exercise any Power whatsoever, except by let and leave of the other States.

If this were so, it would mean that all the States were sunk in the same impotence (well, some of them, anyway -- and I bet I can guess which ones YOU want to be impotent!), and would not be able to discharge any of these sovereign (not "constitutional", because supraconstitutional) functions, but must always hang in suspense, waiting for a Godot who will never arrive, to give release to each of the encumbered States, to exercise their sovereign Powers.

Which Powers, if they are structurally impaired, are not sovereign at all -- sovereignty must lie elsewhere!

So who is the Sovereign, Non-Sequitur? Who gives permission for secession? Permission to ratify or reject? Who do the States check with, N-S?

1,345 posted on 01/18/2005 4:44:18 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Against whom? The United States? Where was the shooting? We're still talking about Virginia in April and May, 1861 -- where was the shooting? What rebellion?

The southern states were in armed rebellion against the United States and Virginia and North Carolina had voted to join that rebellion. They had begun seizing property of the United States at gunpoint. They were in rebellion.

Secession isn't rebellion, secession is secession.

Illegal acts of secession are certainly rebellion.

Your saying there was a rebellion imports that the other States have the right to forbid a State to secede......to ratify and amendment to the Constitution (because it might "impact" the forbidding State[s]......to vote to admit another State (same reason)......or to exercise any Power whatsoever, except by let and leave of the other States.

The states have the right to approve secession, ratify amendments, admit other states, and exercise the powers not reserved to Congress or forbidden them by that document.

So who is the Sovereign, Non-Sequitur? Who gives permission for secession? Permission to ratify or reject? Who do the States check with, N-S?

The people of the United States are sovereign. They give the permission to secede, ratify and reject. They are supreme over the states, not the other way around.

1,349 posted on 01/18/2005 5:52:35 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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