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To: lentulusgracchus
Oh, baloney -- that didn't stop anyone from hanging Mary Surratt.

OK, now we've worked our way down to the 14th Amendment which, had you read the Constitution that far, you would know was ratified on July 9, 1868. Mary Surratt was hanged just over three years before that.

1,170 posted on 01/15/2005 5:45:36 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Non-Sequitur
You still trying to play the ad-hominem game? "LG doesn't know anything"? Keep talking. I'm sure you're selling lots of people.

Bite me. Mary Surratt is still dead. And she had the Fifth Amendment and Fourth Amendment to work with, some of the language in the Fifth being very close to that of the 14th, and she still swung.

My point remains: Chase's argument was bunk. If Davis had gone on trial, they'd have hanged him -- screw the Constitution, this was Jeff Davis. Chase's piffle about the 14th was just to shut down a trial before it started, for political reasons (the most important kind of reasoning to Salmon P. Chase, apparently).

1,173 posted on 01/15/2005 6:20:57 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: Non-Sequitur
OK, now we've worked our way down to the 14th Amendment which, had you read the Constitution that far, you would know was ratified on July 9, 1868. Mary Surratt was hanged just over three years before that.

Meaning the federal government had YEARS in which to try Davis for treason before adoption.

1,185 posted on 01/15/2005 7:10:08 PM PST by 4CJ (Laissez les bon FReeps rouler - Quo Gladius de Veritas)
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To: Non-Sequitur; lentulusgracchus
[Non-Sequitur #1166] Davis was never tried because the 14th Amendment made it impossible to do so without violating his constitutional protections, as has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions.

[lentulusgracchus #1168] Oh, baloney -- that didn't stop anyone from hanging Mary Surratt.

[Non-Sequitur #1170] OK, now we've worked our way down to the 14th Amendment which, had you read the Constitution that far, you would know was ratified on July 9, 1868. Mary Surratt was hanged just over three years before that.

"On the thirteenth day of May, 1867, Jefferson Davis sat in the United states court-room at Richmond accompanied by his counsel, Charles O'Conor and George Shea. After two years' captivity as a prisoner of war, he had been brought from frot Monroe in obedience to a write of habeas corpus and surrendered to the civil authorities for trial on an indictment for treason. ... O'Conor announces that the defendant is ready for trial on the indictment, William M. Evarts announces that the United States are not. A postponement until November is agreed to." (David Miller DeWitt, The Impeachment and Trial of Andrew Johnson, 1903, p. 232-3)

"This incident served to quicken the flagging movement for impeachment. The committee were in session, having reassembled on the sixth of May, and were groping along in the dark to find food for the suspicion that Andrew Johnson was somehow a co-conspirator of Jefferson Davis, when this discharge of the arch-traitor with the consent of the government flashed a sudden light upon the track they were following. Members of the Cabinet were summoned -- Seward, Stanton and Stanbery; and, afterwards, Chief Justice Chase, Evarts, Judge Undersood and the district attorney, and Horace Greeley. But their testimony was a grievous disappointment. so far from implicating the President particularly, it appeared, rather, that he was the only official anxious to prosecute; the postponement and bailing having been managed without his interposition. Seward, whose scars were visible proof that he at least was free from plotting the assassination, told the committee that the infamy into which such professional witnesses as Conover had fallen rendered impossible the prosecution of Davis as an accomplice of Booth and Payne. Stanton, the author of the proclamation offering $100,000 reward for the capture of Davis as such accomplice, testified that he himself advised the return to the writ of habeas corpus. Stanbery swore that there was no evidence in his department to warrant any charge but that of treason; and that, in his opinion, after the suppression of the rebellion, prosecutions for treason ought to stop." (David Miller DeWitt, The Impeachment and Trial of Andrew Johnson, 1903, p. 233-4) (Sourced to "Imp. Inv., pp. 644 et seq., 397, 371, 544, 578, 778.")

"On Saturday, the first of June [1867], the committee ceased to take testimony, and on Monday came to a vote. It was decided by a majority of on 'that from the testimony before them it did not appear that the President of the United States was guilty of such high crimes and misdemeanors as called for the exercise of the impeaching power of the House.' The five in the affirmative were Wilson (the chairman), Woodbridge and Churchill, Republicans, and Marshall and Eldridge, Democrats. The four in the negative were Boutwell, Thomas, Williams and Lawrence; all Republicans. (David Miller DeWitt, The Impeachment and Trial of Andrew Johnson, 1903, p. 235) (Sourced to "Rep. Minority report on Imp. See also Globe, 1st Sess. 40th cong., p. 811.)

The trial of John H. Surratt closed August 24, 1867. (David Miller DeWitt, The Judicial Murder of Mary E. Surratt, 1895, p. 202)

"In the midst of his troubles, the President finds time to pardon Dr. Mudd (Feb. 8th [1868]), who soon returns to his family and friends." (David Miller DeWitt, The Judicial Murder of Mary E. Surratt, 1895, p. 203)

"The impeachment trial ends May 26th, the President escaping conviction by but one vote; and Stanton at last lets go his hold on the War office. (David Miller DeWitt, The Judicial Murder of Mary E. Surratt, 1895, p. 203)

"On the 1st of March, 1869, among the last acts of his stormy administration, the President undid, as far as he could then undo, the work of the Military Commission by setting Arnold and Spangler free; O'Laughlin having died from the effects of the climate. (DeWitt, The Judicial Murder of Mary E. Surratt, 1895, p. 204)

And here is some interesting background, including a radical conspiracy theory.

SOURCE: David Miller DeWitt, The Impeachment and Trial of President Andrew Johnson, 1903, pp. 288-93. [nc - original footnotes converted to endnotes, original footnote symbols converted to numbers]

The elections in the Northern states in the fall of 1867 indicated that the tide of popular opinion was running strongly against the reconstruction policy of the domi­nant party. In September, Maine at the extreme east reduced the Eepublican majority of 28,000 of the year before to 1,100; California at the extreme west elected (in the spring, however) a Democratic governor and two out of the three representatives in Congress. In Octo­ber, Pennsylvania was carried by the opposition, and Ohio, though the Eepublican candidate for governor was successful by a narrow majority, elected a Democratic legislature which, the following year, revoked the rati­fication of the fourteenth amendment and elected a Dem­ocrat to succeed Wade. What was still more signifi­cant, the voters rejected a proposed amendment to the state constitution granting suffrage to the comparatively few negroes within her borders by a constitutional ma­jority of fifty thousand. In November, New York went over to the Democrats by a "majority nearly as large. New Jersey went the same way, electing a legislature which revoked the ratification of the fourteenth amend­ment and sent back to the Senate the ejected Stockton. The people of Kansas and Minnesota -- sure Republican states -- cast a verdict against negro suffrage on a direct submission to them of that issue. Though it was an odd year in politics and the result could have no effect upon the composition of the Congress, in every state where elections were held, even in Massachusetts, the trend was in the same direction. All idea of selecting as a candidate for President a true expositor of the pol­icy of the party was abandoned, and every eye was turned to the soldier who, though a member of the ad­ministration, bore the charmed title of the Conqueror of the Rebellion. [1] On the other hand, the President re­garded the result as but another justification of his habitual confidence in the people, to which he alluded in a speech which he read to a crowd that gathered before the White House on the night of the thirteenth of No­vember to congratulate him on the recent victories. "The remedy for the present unhappy condition of the country must come from the people themselves," he said.

''At the present time they cannot, according to the forms of the Constitution, repeal obnoxious laws; they cannot remove or control this military despotism. The remedy is nevertheless in their hands, and it is a sure one, if not controlled by fraud, overawed by arbitrary power, or from apathy on their part too long delayed. With abiding confidence in their patriotism, wisdom and integrity, I am still hopeful that in the end the rod of despotism will be broken, the armed heel of power lifted from the necks of the people, and the principles of a violated Constitution preserved." [2]

To the advocates of impeachment on the judiciary committee which met two days after, the speech was but another high misdemeanour, and a printed copy was put in evidence. "The echo of his last speech," they say in their report, "is still lingering in our ears"; and on the twentieth the committee once more came to a vote. It will be remembered that last June they decided against impeachment by a vote of five to four. Not­withstanding the fact that, after the investigation was reopened at the solicitation of the minority, no testimony of any importance was taken except General Grant's which was not unfavourable to the President, the com­mittee now reversed its decision; one of the Republicans, who had voted in the majority before, joining his radical colleagues. The convert was John C. Churchill from Oswego, New York, who never publicly accounted for his change of mind. The adjourned session of Con­gress opening the next day, the committee was given time until the next Monday to make a report; and dur­ing the two working days intervening, a fitting close was put to the investigation by the reexamination of Baker and the examination of Ashley. The fugitive witness having returned of his own accord was called on to disclose the whereabouts of his mysterious Mrs. Harris. He had seen her, he swore, but he could name no person who had seen her in his company, or who had seen her enter the hotels where he professed to have met her, or who had seen her while there. He had pointed her out to Matchett who subpoenaed her to come before the committee, but she would not come without money, he said. "How much was wanted?" inquired a member of the committee. "$25,000," answered Baker. "Who made that proposition?" "This woman made it"; and with this prompt reply Baker was dismissed. [3]

Ashley [nc - James M. Ashley, Representative from Ohio] was the last witness, called seemingly by the Democratic members of the committee. He admitted that from the beginning of the impeachment movement he entertained the belief that Andrew Johnson was im­plicated in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln; that he had stated to members of the House of Representa­tives that he had evidence which satisfied him of that fact; that he believed that letters were in existence from Andrew Johnson to Jefferson Davis and to Booth estab­lishing that fact; that he had been engaged ever since the investigation began in an effort to unearth these letters and to obtain legal evidence to bring before the committee; that he had employed Matchett; that he had held repeated interviews with Conover-Dunham in jail by day and by night; [nc - Conover/Dunham was convicted of perjury in April 1867 and sentenced to Albany penitentiary for 10 years.] that after the conviction he had importuned the judges to stay the execution of the sen­tence until an application might be made for pardon; that he backed the convict's application to President Johnson for a pardon so that the convict might be used as a witness to accuse the man who pardoned him of complicity in the murder of his predecessor. The mem­orandum enclosed by Dunham in his petition of last July and which appeared in the report of the acting Attorney-General was produced and put in evidence. [4]

It begins:

"Shortly before the inauguration of Lincoln and John­son, the latter, through or in connection with Booth, sent several letters to the Confederacy, one of which was in­tended for Jefferson Davis." These letters, it goes on, were taken to Richmond by one Allen who returned "bear­ing several letters from J. P. Benjamin" "enclosed to Booth.'' Allen delivered the package to Booth who taking one letter out "addressed to 'Andrew Johnson, Vice-Presi­dent elect of the United States' " asked Allen to deliver it which he did in company with a friend whom Allen took along; both Allen and friend can be produced. There were two ex-rebel soldiers, one named Dawson, who would testify that they met Booth the second day before his death "near Garrett's" and he told them he had "killed Lincoln and thereby made a good southern man President." Dawson replied that on the contrary "if he meant that he had made Andy Johnson President, he had done the worse possible thing for the South, as he was more extreme in his views and a greater enemy to the South than Lincoln." "Booth replied that it was a mistake; that Johnson as a candidate and office-seeker had to say a great many things, but that as President he could do as he pleased; that he was bound to be a friend of the South; and that if he went back on him (Booth) he would have him hung higher than Haman."

Ashley explained what he called his "theory about this matter":

"I have always believed that President Harrison and President Taylor and President Buchanan were poisoned, and were poisoned for the express purpose of putting the Vice Presidents in the presidential office. In the first two instances it was successful. It was attempted with Mr. Buchanan and failed. It succeeded with Mr. Taylor and Mr. Harrison. Then Mr. Lincoln was assassinated, and from my stand-point I could come to a conclusion which impartial men, holding different views, could not come. It would not amount to legal evidence.

"Q. Do you mean to say that you formed an opinion and expressed it to members of Congress that there was evidence to implicate Mr. Johnson which was not legal evidence?
"A. Yes, sir; it satisfied me.
"Q. State to the committee any evidence or fact that you know, tending in any degree to fasten the assassination on Mr. Johnson.
"A. I never withheld anything from the committee which I regarded as evidence.
"Q. Then you state now, as you did before, that you know of no other evidence tending to show that fact?
"A. I know none at present which I could bring to the knowledge of the committee, or I should bring it.' ' [5]

----------------------

[1] For the elections, see McPh. Recon., pp. 372, 353-4.
[2] Speech, Imp. Inv., p. 1175.
[3] Imp. Inv., p. 1193.
[4] See Ch. III, p. 281, supra.
[5] Imp. Inv., pp. 1204, 1194 et seq.; 1198-9.


1,199 posted on 01/16/2005 3:13:56 AM PST by nolu chan
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