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To: Thatcherite
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/601395/posts
has some interestin gstuff but, it's too general. I'll keep looking.
958 posted on 12/23/2004 7:30:01 AM PST by derheimwill (Love is a person, not an emotion.)
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To: derheimwill
OK, I've got a free moment now to go through your initial claims of the source of the flood water.

Noah's Ark: I don't know enough details to consider myself any kind of expert but, looking at the whole story, it fits together. You're right, the rain was not the only source of water.

Well you are part right, rain as we understand cannot be the source of any of the water. Rain is oceanic precipitation and cannot raise global water levels.

Here are a few things to consider: Traditional understanding is that much of the water came from huge underground caverns, which collapsed, causing their contents to spew out. IOW, the pre-deluvian ocean surface was much smaller. Such caverns still exist under Florida.

Traditional understanding has no scientific standing and fails on numerous levels. (a) It implies a catastrophic global *lowering* of the land by several miles which is in no way implied or mentioned in the flood story. (b) The energy release from such an event would not be survivable by the ark or by fish. Like Krakatoa occuring everywhere in the world at once. (c) Such an event would leave global evidence behind on a vast scale, we are talking a billion cubic miles of water being squeezed out of caverns by a collapse. There is no such evidence. (A few small caves in Florida does not count as evidence)

Another source of water is "the floodgates of heaven." A few years ago, it was discovered that the earth is constantly colliding with huge masses of ice crystals lying along its orbital path. The apparent source of these crystals is - earth. We leave them behind as vapour and pick them back up, later. I suspect this process was somehow involved, as well.

Your "huge masses" of ice won't even begin to do the job. I don't even need a citation of them from you to know that this is a relatively tiny completely irrelevant phenomenon. However, for the sake of amusement, lets imagine the earth slamming into a billion cubic miles of ice (slightly more, in fact because ice is higher-volume than water) at solar-orbital velocity over a period of 40 days. Lets just think about the kinetic energy-loss involved.... 1/2 * m * v * v Yep, I think you just vaporised the earth with that theory. (Jehu will be so glad that math is being brought to bear on the subject)

The account indicates the flood as the first rain ever. That's quite a claim. If true, there must have been some massive atmospheric changes, as well.

I missed the reference to rain being a new phenomenon invented for the flood, though it begs the question how did the water cycle work before that? Massive atmospheric changes? You bet, I would be prepared to bet that no-one can postulate a mechanism for the flood that doesn't destroy the earth's atmosphere completely, and much of the earth's crust into the bargain.

Finally, another odd phrase is "the water covered all the mountains to a depth of 15 cubits." Well, all the mountains are not the same heighth. I believe a tidal wave is being described here - one large enough to travel around the whole earth.

You are the one who believes that the bible is an accurate literal account of real events (except perhaps when it doesn't suit you?). Genesis 7 16 to 7 20 quite clearly describes a gradual uplift of the flood waters till the mountains are covered, not a global "tidal wave" (though I did enjoy the mental picture of the aghast Noah who has just spent 100 years building a boat according to the Lord's instruction looking at the giant tidal wave that is about to utterly destroy it)

The Scandinavian and pacific island accounts indicate something of this nature, as well.

Well, would you believe it? People who live on islands by or in the ocean have myths and stories about being inundated by hurricanes/tsunamis/typhoons. Incredible, I would never have expected that, any more than I would expect river civilisations who haven't mastered flood engineering to have "rainy" flood stories

P. S. There is no way of knowing where Noah lived, prior to the flood. We only know he landed somewhere between Turkey and Egypt.

If he lived at all, he lived in the middle east, and once saved his family from a local flood (that seemed like global devastation to those involved) in a boat. Possibly he saved some livestock too.

959 posted on 12/23/2004 8:30:18 AM PST by Thatcherite (Conservative and Biblical Literalist are not synonymous)
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