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Other people have said that ID only claims that an intelligent designer is responsible for the diversity of life on the planet, not that everything was "perfect" in the beginning. Seems as though the ID pushers can't even get their stories straight.

Sorry but I have zero intention of making my beliefs line up with others simply because they say they believe in ID. Just like with the evolutionists, there may be lots of dissenting views and variations as to the details - or are you telling me that the evolution pushers DO get their story straight? My Bible says in several places that the creation was 'very good' - since this was in a pre-fallen world, that would mean perfect in my books. Where others get the idea (or evidence to support an idea) that it was less than perfect is not something I can comment on. Who's thoughts on this are you specifically referring to?

Can you show observations for this, or is your argument simply "can't you just see that I'm right?" (which, by the way, is not an argument).

Nope, can't do it. That world doesn't exist any more and since I wasn't there, I couldn't bring back any pieces to show anyone. The Bible says that after being handed this perfect creation, Adam and Eve sinned and were tossed out of the Garden of Eden. It then goes on to recount how over the next 1600 years or so, mankind got worse and worse until God said he would send a flood to wipe it out (except for Noah and his family on the ark). This is why you see lots and lots of dead things buried all over the earth (the only way a fossil is formed is to take something alive and bury it very rapidly). So no evidence remains of this 'perfect' world. However, there is tons and tons of evidence of a very different world that existed between the time of the 'perfect' world and the time of the flood and it was obviously very different from ours - but at what level of degradation creation had suffered by that point is an unknown. This past weekend I had the opportunity to meet a fellow named John Mackay from Creation Research. He does digs all around the world - some of the fossils he has unearthed are absolutely stunning in their detail. Interesting thing is that many of the ones he showed are exact replicas of plants and animals that exist today - the big exception is that they are usually much much larger - a dragonfly with a wingspan of a metre, a horsetail plant which would have been over 10 metres high and so on.

By the way, you don't have to be so condescending as to explain what an argument is to me. Now, what is your one biggest single proof of evolution - take your best shot at the one thing you absolutely know to be true.

Sorry but I have zero intention of making my beliefs line up with others simply because they say they believe in ID.

Ah, so you have the one true ID belief, and all of the others are imposters?

Just like with the evolutionists, there may be lots of dissenting views and variations as to the details - or are you telling me that the evolution pushers DO get their story straight?

I'm saying that the disagreements amongst evolution supporters are nowhere near the magnitude of the disagreement between the claim that ID makes no claims regarding the nature of the Designer and the claim that ID speaks of a perfect, divine Designer.

My Bible says in several places that the creation was 'very good' - since this was in a pre-fallen world, that would mean perfect in my books.

What is "perfect", anyway? Could you explain what exactly is meant by "perfect"? It's a nice description for the unattainable, but when it comes to defining something that actually qualifies as "perfect", specifics get lacking.

Who's thoughts on this are you specifically referring to?

Yours. You claim that the world was "perfect" pre-fall. I'd like to know on what evidence you base that assumption -- beyond that of a 3000+ year-old religious story. I can look up the creation myths of popular religions on my own.

Nope, can't do it.

So you don't actually have any evidence. Thus it's not really something that science can explain. Of course, you left the realm of science by introducing a divine element into the mix in the first place, admitting up front that your version of ID has absolutely no place in school science classrooms.

However, there is tons and tons of evidence of a very different world that existed between the time of the 'perfect' world and the time of the flood and it was obviously very different from ours - but at what level of degradation creation had suffered by that point is an unknown.

Okay. Present some of this evidence, as it would likely turn a number of sciences on their heads.

This past weekend I had the opportunity to meet a fellow named John Mackay from Creation Research. He does digs all around the world - some of the fossils he has unearthed are absolutely stunning in their detail. Interesting thing is that many of the ones he showed are exact replicas of plants and animals that exist today - the big exception is that they are usually much much larger - a dragonfly with a wingspan of a metre, a horsetail plant which would have been over 10 metres high and so on.

Got a reference for his work? I'd love to see this.

Now, what is your one biggest single proof of evolution - take your best shot at the one thing you absolutely know to be true.

Sorry, science doesn't deal in "proofs", it deals in evidence. Nothing in science is ever "proven", and nothing can be said to be "absolutely known to be true".