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To: GOPcapitalist; capitan_refugio
However, the fact is that the states did join the union either as states or colonies (and then becoming states in that relationship) and never were apart from that union. Why would they need to be apart from something they individually and voluntarily joined? Virgina never made a foreign pact with another nation. I'm not so certain that you are correct about that. I'll admittedly have to research it further but I seem to recall there being a "problem" in the pre-constitutional era of individual states engaging in agreements with foreign nations and with each other. I've already directed your attention to the 1777 case of Georgia and South Carolina individually entering into a treaty with each other and the Cherokee Nation, thus disproving the gist of your claim. This also seems to be the reason why the constitutional convention chose to prohibit states from entering into treaties - because they had been doing so under the articles and the continental congress.

Those states entered into treaties as states of the union, not as separate powers.

That would make treaties that the colonies made with the Indians as equal to that of England herself.

States had latitude to deal with the Indian issue within her border, in their capacity as states, not nations.

That is why those treaties ended up being decided in the Supreme Court.

And Jackson was ordered to enforce the Supreme Court decison honoring the Creek Indian treaty, which Jackson refused to do.

So it was left up to the states because the federal gov't refused to act on upholding a treaty obligation that had been ordered by another branch of the Federal Gov't.

Each state from 1774 on was seen in relationship to one another as a state. You are incorrect. All 13 "states" were known among each other as colonies into the spring of 1776. At that point some of the colonies individually altered their status from colony to state or to commonwealth prior to July 4th, the remainder doing so with the act of the 4th.

Those 'colonies' were known as the states in relationship with one another.

Not to other nations, which did not recognize them as such.

They would not be 'states' until they won independence as the united States.

Then they would form a loose union under the Articles of Confederation (which was suppose to a permanent one) and the Constitution. The U.S. Constitution was ratified by the States United Incorrect. Article VII of the Constitution spells out the ratification process, which is very clearly done by the States to form "this Constitution between the States." "The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same."

Read the last part and you will see above the signature of G.Washington, and of the Independence of the United States of America

the Confederate States did not state themselves as the Confederate States of America, but listed each individual state as such.

They understood the importance of the phrase United States and avoided making the Confederate States appear to be a united union as was the United States.

But all of this unimportant since the Southern Constitition was made to continue slavery and the defense of that Constitution only speaks to the true nature of those who would defend such a vile nation being formed.

992 posted on 11/24/2004 1:20:15 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
Those states entered into treaties as states of the union, not as separate powers.

No other state was party to the Georgia-South Carolina treaty with the Cherokees in 1777, nor did they profess to be acting on the part of the other states.

That would make treaties that the colonies made with the Indians as equal to that of England herself.

By 1777 they were no longer colonies.

States had latitude to deal with the Indian issue within her border, in their capacity as states, not nations.

It wasn't within their borders. The treaty settled the limits of their borders in relation to the Cherokees, who occupied territory to the west.

That is why those treaties ended up being decided in the Supreme Court.

The Supreme Court did not exist in 1777.

And Jackson was ordered to enforce the Supreme Court decison honoring the Creek Indian treaty, which Jackson refused to do.

Another of the impeachable offenses of "Overreaction Jackson."

Each state from 1774 on was seen in relationship to one another as a state. You are incorrect.

Wrong. They were ALL colonies of the crown until the late spring of 1776 at the very earliest. That June some of them individually altered their status to states and commonwealths. The remainder did so in the joint act on July 4th. Those 'colonies' were known as the states in relationship with one another.

Then why do all the colonial documents from 1774 and 1775 refer to the other colonies as the "Colony of Pennsylvania" or the "Colony of Georgia" and so forth? The terms "state" and "commonwealth" did not come into official use until the late spring of 1776.

1,151 posted on 11/24/2004 3:30:52 PM PST by GOPcapitalist ("Marxism finds it easy to ally with Islamic zealotism" - Ludwig von Mises)
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