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To: GOPcapitalist; capitan_refugio
Well, might you tell me what great 'evil' the Federal gov't was responsible for? The deprivation of income earned by others (taxes) and the deprivation of the right to government by consent (coercive obedience to the union).

Well, the Confederate Gov't wasn't going to levy taxes?

It says they have the right to do so in Art.1 Sec.8.

Thus, the Confederate Constitution was just a lot of empty noise also, that could have been broke up at the whim of any one state when they did not get their way! If that one state decided to secede from it, pretty much, though it would presumably still apply in states that did not desire to secede from it. The entire notion is built upon a voluntary act of ascession to the government.

Yea, maybe some of the Confederate States would have seen the evil of slavery and seceded over it!

Then the Confederate states could have waged war against it to ensure that their property would be protected in those Confederate states that had joined for the purpose of forming a permanent union.

Well, since you are not in favor of any gov't at all, I did not say I favor no government at all. I simply said that government itself is an institution that is inherently removed from the good, which is the classical definition of sinfulness. That some governments are more evil than others is certain, and thus the pragmatist will tolerate the existence of a lesser evil without embracing it as a positive good that it is not or worshipping at its false and idolatrous altar. Insofar as the United States meets this end when compared to, say, the alternative of mohammedan theocracy or soviet style communism, then I openly prefer the continuance of the United States by far. But that does not mean I worship the United States as some sort of secular and worldly deity.

And a Gov't that supports human bondage is alright with you?

My what libertarian consistency.

981 posted on 11/24/2004 12:52:30 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
Well, the Confederate Gov't wasn't going to levy taxes?

Sure they were, but at a rate roughly 1/3rd of the rate being used by the north.

It says they have the right to do so in Art.1 Sec.8.

No. It says they have a POWER to do so, not a right. Governments exercise power. When that exercise of power becomes excessive it may be characterized as tyrannical and could thus be an impetus for a people asserting their right to their earned property of income against a government that perhaps they would have tolerated if it extracted that money with greater moderation.

Yea, maybe some of the Confederate States would have seen the evil of slavery and seceded over it!

Who knows, and if they did, more power to them. My point is not in any way related to defending slavery but rather to the logical and consistent application of the principle of self government.

And a Gov't that supports human bondage is alright with you?

Most governments employ human bondage of some form or another, the only difference being the degree. Normal taxation is one form of this. Severe taxation (i.e. property confiscation) is an extreme form of it that sometimes even surpasses legal bondage in severity, as was the case in Stalinist Russia. Thus I will say that a government supporting human bondage of any form is not alright with me, though among multiple governments all employing human bondage, lesser forms of it may exist.

987 posted on 11/24/2004 1:06:01 AM PST by GOPcapitalist ("Marxism finds it easy to ally with Islamic zealotism" - Ludwig von Mises)
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To: fortheDeclaration
You make some very good and telling points. Every time one of these confederate wannabes whines about how the ACW was about their rights and liberty, I've got to wonder what they, or their philosophical ancestors, must have thought about the 4 million slaves they denied the same rights and liberties. (Not to mention the hundreds of thousands to millions of free persons who they denied the fundamental rights of free speech, freedom of the press, and free association.)

The southern insurrectionist cause wasn't about liberty - it was about privilege, race, and wealth.

989 posted on 11/24/2004 1:14:10 AM PST by capitan_refugio
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