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To: justshutupandtakeit
Appealing to the People was only constitutional when done through the amendment process.

What do you call an election?

As for the People leaving the Union, that's where your education in the sovereignty pecking order begins.

The People don't have to follow the Constitution all the time. They can unmake it if they want to -- all they have to do is call a convention.

That's what the Southern Peoples did, when they withdrew from the Union.

The People make and unmake compacts and constitutions like you and I make our beds. Their actions are sovereign and above the Constitution. If they were not, arguendo, then how would they have the power to amend?

The People own the Constitution and are its Master -- not the other way around.

Lincoln just said what he did, to put something, anything, above the People so he could champion it (whatever it was) against the People's cause and justify himself in opposing the People in arms and in making himself the People's master by force of arms. He couldn't do it in his own name, so he had to have some excuse for calling out the Army to crush the People, which he did.

That's the dictionary definition of tyranny, by the way.

796 posted on 11/22/2004 10:24:42 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus

An election is a regularly scheduled rotation of office holders (at least theoretically) and not an appeal to the people.

No a convention in one or eleven states does not have the authority to dissolve the Union. Under the framework of the constitution states have no power to pass acts which affect the Union as a whole unless it is done through the prescribed constitutional methodology. Our Constitution is out of the control of one or several states only "...on the application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a Convention..." can it be changed or through 2/3s of both Houses of Congress. Neither of these were done in 1860-1 since conventions in states is NOT the Convention referenced above. Even if every state had held a convention that still would not have met the required conditions for amending.

And No the People do NOT "make and unmake compacts and constitutions like we make our beds" making such a comment shows you incomprehension of just what the constitution is.
It is a fundamental law designed to remain substantially the same for long periods changed only by the methodology described therein. It is NOT the product of the whim of the moment.

It is the creation of the Permanent Interest of the People not its day to day vacillations.

Nor do you understand the concept of Tyranny in its origin or its actions. Blindess to the tyranny of the Slaves prevents you from seeing many things.


839 posted on 11/23/2004 8:26:55 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Public Enemy #1, the RATmedia.)
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