[lentulusgracchus]

Put another way, capitan, you made an ingnorant and arrogant proclamation. I corrected that act of ignorance by citing an irrefutable historical truth and yet you arrogantly persist in asserting your previous falsehood's validity at all cost and beyond.

Concurring bump. I'm getting tired of the obstinacy in the face of fact and reason.

Confute, refute, walk all over his argument in your spiked elenchus shoes -- and he just pops back up somewhere else and posts the exact same damned thing as if it had never come up before. That's just plain dishonest.

[capitan_refugio]

Neither of you have ever refuted anything. Citing your ofttimes perverted personal opinion does not pass for refutation. Not only do you need to build a cogent argument, you should try reference and citation. Most of these issues have been discussed before by greater minds than your (or mine). The difference between you and me is that I realize when an appropriate citation assists making a point. You two stumblebums just continue to blather aimlessly. Gopc's showing today concerning his views on the Virginia Constitution are a good case in point.

Your approach to debate and discussion is to basically bluster and filibuster. Now that is what I call "intellectual dishonesty."