[fortheDeclaration]

The South died, but the United States was reborn. The South was beaten and conquered, but it was the United States that was destroyed.

Tell that to the nations we beat in two World Wars, they would be very suprised to learn that the United States hadn't defeated them.

So which flag do you salute, the stars and stripes or stars and bars?

[lentulusgracchus]

Tell that to the nations we beat in two World Wars, they would be very suprised to learn that the United States hadn't defeated them.

The United States hasn't existed since 1865. We live now under an oligarchic tyranny of industrialists' money. They use the Constitution like you use a roll of Charmins.

You know it's true. The flag's the same, but the country is run by an Old World regime now. The People are no longer in charge and haven't been. They've been handled.

[capitan_refugio]

The "United States" that the southern knuckleheads seems to revere never existed. Instead, they fantasize, in the words of Rhett, about the "States united." They deny the founding principles espoused by Jefferson and others, and they deny the nationalist "Union" principles from the Framers of the Constitution, such as Madison, Hamilton, Washington, and Pinckney.

The 13 original states never existed outside of the Union. As James Wilson noted, that "the United Colonies were declared to be free & independent States; and inferring that they were independent, not Individually but Unitedly." The were strengthened into a "perpetual Union" by the Article of Confederation, and made into a true nation by the Constitution. Although the roots of American nationalism reach back far before any formal documentation, the knuckleheads continue to insist on state sovereignty and independence - which never fully existed at any time in the history of the Union. Such people cannot honestly describe themselves firstly as "Americans."

[capitan_refugio]

Based on past practice, some of the confederate cabal will readily agree that they are not Americans "first and foremost."