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The flashpoint is the question of whether Southerners had any Fourth/Fifth Amendment property rights in slaves they held, that other people in the United States were bound to respect.

Absolutely not --whetever the Constitution says. The Declaration of Independence is our founding document and as sure as it declares the existence of our Nation it declares Americans are endowed by their Creator with the right to live our own lives.

And no human, not even ourselves, "owns" our lives, unlike the Libertarian credo; we merely "are" our lives. Any idea that humans are property is without base in the America of the Declaration, no matter where anyone writes it. There is law for America that is even higher than the Constitution. I have just referred to it.

Defending the South about slavery is harldy a winning prospect. Not in the 19th Century. Not in the 20th Century. Not in the 21th Century.

That isn't an epaulet on your shoulders. Knock it off, yourselves.

[You, quoting me] The flashpoint is the question of whether Southerners had any Fourth/Fifth Amendment property rights in slaves they held, that other people in the United States were bound to respect.

[You, replying] Absolutely not --whetever the Constitution says.

You disagree that rights, and the determination of the Abolitionists and freesoilers not to respect them, were not the crux of the War Between the States?

Notice what you are actually saying. I get it that you disagree with me -- but you might at least pay attention to what it is that I said, that you are disagreeing about.

The Declaration of Independence is our founding document and as sure as it declares the existence of our Nation it declares Americans are endowed by their Creator with the right to live our own lives.

Wrong in the first place. The United States is a compacted society, and the compact is the Constitution, not the Declaration nor the Articles of Confederation.

I see we are in the presence of a Declarationist. Well, here's news for you: Declarationism is a pile of humbug, the purpose of which is, as Bill Clinton once put it so brilliantly, to "find me a way around the Fourth Amendment". (He really said that.)

And no human, not even ourselves, "owns" our lives, unlike the Libertarian credo; we merely "are" our lives.

Says who? Thank you for your opinion.

Any idea that humans are property is without base in the America of the Declaration, no matter where anyone writes it.

Bzzzzzzttt!!! Sorry, you're incorrect. The men who wrote the Declaration of Independence owned slaves; they ought to have known what they were talking about -- whereas you, on the other hand, seem to be falling out with them.

There is law for America that is even higher than the Constitution. I have just referred to it.

Well, you are sort-of right. There is authority higher than the Constitution. Here is the pecking order:

1. God, the Logos, the Tetragrammaton, Providence.

2. The People = The States.

3. The Constitution created by the People in convention assembled (in their States, acting as the States).

4. The United States Government, its laws and decisions.

4a. The States of the Union, their laws, constitutions, and governments.

5. Everything else.

Defending the South about slavery is harldy a winning prospect. Not in the 19th Century. Not in the 20th Century. Not in the 21th Century.

The thing about rights is, respecting them when they belong to someone else, respecting them when you don't like them and they're inconvenient to your purposes, and respecting them when they belong to someone you don't like.

That isn't an epaulet on your shoulders. Knock it off, yourselves.

Your effort at snideness falls flat in this forum, where people have PhD's in snideness.