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To: Non-Sequitur

"What section of the Constitution did he violate by sending the ships to resupply Sumter?"

Well, first of all, you are mixing two issues. Constitutionality and re-supply.

At the time,everyone, I repeat, everyone knew that sending Federal troops to Charleston was an act of war.

If there were a real concern that the troops be re-supplied, all Lincoln had to do was authorize the Union quartermaster at Ft. Sumter to order and accept supplies from the Charleston authorities. He had money on deposit for such requests, and this is the way the men had been fed since construction had begun 25 years before.

If Lincoln did not trust that transaction, then he could have shipped the supplies down by railroad.

Putting supplies on armed Federal warships with several hundred armed men was carrying it too far.

What constitutional authority did he have for this provocative and aggressive action?


2,435 posted on 12/06/2004 2:46:19 PM PST by PeaRidge ("Walt got the boot? I didn't know. When/why did it happen?" Ditto 7-22-04 And now they got #3fan.)
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To: PeaRidge
Well, first of all, you are mixing two issues. Constitutionality and re-supply.

You were the one who said that Lincoln should have read the Constitution before sending the supply ships. What connection were you trying to make?

At the time,everyone, I repeat, everyone knew that sending Federal troops to Charleston was an act of war.

As he made it clear, his intentions were to land supplies and reinforce only if the resupply effort was opposed.

If there were a real concern that the troops be re-supplied, all Lincoln had to do was authorize the Union quartermaster at Ft. Sumter to order and accept supplies from the Charleston authorities. He had money on deposit for such requests, and this is the way the men had been fed since construction had begun 25 years before.

Authorize to what end? On April 2, the Davis regime had ordered Beauregard to cease extending any and all courtesies to Major Anderson, including the purchase of provisions from the city. Anderson couldn't have provisioned from the city even if he wanted to.

If Lincoln did not trust that transaction, then he could have shipped the supplies down by railroad.

And get them to the fort how? The Davis regime had cut off all contact with the shore. The only way left was by sea.

What constitutional authority did he have for this provocative and aggressive action?

In his position as commander in chief of the Army and the Navy.

2,445 posted on 12/06/2004 7:28:57 PM PST by Non-Sequitur (Jefferson Davis - the first 'selected, not elected' president.)
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To: PeaRidge
Very good post. The issue of resupply has traditionally been framed in terms of Lincoln's devising (which, if he were trying to start a war, would not be reliable for anyone looking to a peaceful resolution), and now you have stated for the first time I've ever seen it, two or three concrete, and peaceable, alternatives to what in fact Lincoln did.
2,454 posted on 12/07/2004 3:29:25 AM PST by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: PeaRidge; Non-Sequitur
[Non-Seq #2350] "What section of the Constitution did he violate by sending the ships to resupply Sumter?"

[PeaRidge #2435] Well, first of all, you are mixing two issues. Constitutionality and re-supply.

The mission was not to "resupply" but to REINFORCE.


"... WHOSE OBJECT IS TO REINFORCE FORT SUMTER...."

LINK

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Series 1, vol 1, Part 1 (Charleston Campaign)

Page 236

HEADQUARTERS OF THE ARMY, Washington, D. C., April 4, 1861.

Lieutenant Colonel HENRY L. SCOTT, A. D. C., New York:

SIR: This letter will be landed to you by Captain G. V. Fox, ex-officer of the Navy, and a gentleman of high standing, as well as possessed of extraordinary nautical ability. He is charged by high authority here with the command of an expedition, under cover of certain ships of war, whose object is to re-enforce Fort Sumter.

To embark with Captain Fox you will cause a detachment of recruits, say about two hundred, to be immediately organized at Fort Columbus, with a competent number of officers, arms, ammunition, and subsistence. A large surplus of the latter-indeed, as great as the vessels of the expedition can take -- with other necessaries, will be needed for the augmented garrison of Fort Sumter.

The subsistence and other supplies should be assorted like those which were provided by you and Captain Ward of the Navy for a former expedition. Consult Captain Fox and Major Eaton on the subject, and give all necessary orders in my name to fit out the expedition, except that the hiring of vessels will be left to others.

Some fuel must be shipped. Oil, artillery implements, fuses, cordage, slow-march, mechanical levers, and gins, &c., should also be put on board.

Consult, also, if necessary, confidentially, Colonel Tompkins and Major Thornton.

Respectfully, yours,
WINFIELD SCOTT.


GOOD OLD McSWEENEY
THE CHARLESTON BUTCHER WHO REGULARLY SUPPLIED FORT SUMTER

OFFICIAL RECORDS: Armies, Series 1, Volume 1

Page 144

EXECUTIVE OFFICE, DEPARTMENT OF WAR
Charleston, January 19, 1861.
Maj. ROBERT ANDERSON:

SIR: I am instructed by his excellency the governor to inform you that he has directed an officer of the State to procure and carry over with your mails each day to Fort Sumter such supplies of fresh meat and vegetables as you may indicate.
I am, sir, respectfidiy yours,

D. F. JAMISON.

FORT SUMTER S. C., January 19, 1861
Hon. D. F. JAMISON,
Executive Office, Department of War:

SIR: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your communication of this date, stating that you are authorized by his excellency the governor to inform me that he has directed an officer of the State to procure and carry over with my mails each day to Fort Sumter such supplies of fresh meat and vegetables as I may indicate. I confess that I am at a loss to understand the latter part of this message, as I have not represented in any quarter that we were in need of such supplies. As commandant of a military post, I can only have my troops furnished with fresh beef in the manner prescribed by law, and I am compelled, therefore, with due thanks to his excellency, respectfully to decline his offer. If his suggestion is based upon a right, then I must procure the meat as we have been in the habit of doing for years, under an unexpired contract with Mr. McSweeney, a Charleston butcher, who would, I presume, if permitted, deliver the meat, &c., at this fort or at Fort Johnson, at the usual periods for such delivery, four times in ten

============

Page 145

days. If the permission is founded on courtesy and civility, I am compelled respectfully to decline accepting it, with a reiteration of my thanks for having made it. in connection with this subject, I deem it not improper respectfully to suggest that his excellency may do an act of humanity and great kindness if he will permit one of the New York steamers to stop with a lighter and take the womeu and children of this garrison to that city. The confinement within the walls of this work, and the impossibility of my having it in my power to have them furnished with the proper and usual articles of food, will, I fear, soon produce sickness among them. The compliance with this request will confer a favor upon a class of persons to whom similar indulgences are always granted, even during a siege in time of actual war, and will be duly appreciated by me.

I have the honor to be, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
ROBERT ANDERSON,
Major, First Artillery, Commanding Fort Sumter.

P.S. -- I hope that the course I have deemed it my duty to take in reference to the supplies will have a tendency to allay an excitement which, jndging from the tenor of the paragraphs in to-day’s paper, I fear they are trying to get up in the city.


FOOD WAS SUPPLIED TO FORT SUMTER UNTIL APRIL 7, 1861

There was no food shortage. It is well-documented that Fort Sumter had obtained food from the merchants of Charleston since shortly after Major Anderson moved there. It is well documented by the official records of both sides that the supply of food from the Charleston merchants was not cut off until April 7, 1861. After the South Carolina officials learned of the fleet that was sailing toward them, they cut off the food supply.

UNION CORRESPONDENCE

LINK

[247]

No; 96.

FORT SUMTER, S. C., April 7, 1861.
(Received A. G. O., April 13.)

Col. L. THOMAS,
Adjutant- General U. S. Army:

COLONEL:

I have the honor to report that we do not see any work going on around us. There was more activity displayed by the guard-

[248]

LINK

boats last night than has been clone for some time. Three of them remained at anchor all night and until after reveille this morning, near the junction of the three channels. You will see by the inclosed letter, just received from Brigadier-General Beauregard that we shall not get any more supplies from the city of Charleston. I hope that they will continne to let us have onr mails as long as we remain. I am glad to be enabled to report that there have been no new cases of dysentery, and that the sick-list only embraces six cases to-day.

I am, colonel, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

ROBERT ANDERSON,
Major, First Artillery, Commanding.

[Inclosure.l

CONFEDERATE CORRESPONDENCE

HEADQUARTERS OF THE PROVISIONAL ARMY, C. S.,
Charleston, S. C., April 7, 1861.

Maj. ROBERT ANDERSON,
Commanding at Fort Sumter, Charleston Harbor S. C.:

Sir:

In compliance with orders from the Confederate Government at Montgomery, I have the honor to inform you that, in consequence of the delays and apparent vacillations of the United States Government at Washington relative to the evacuation of Fort Sumter, no further communications for the purposes of supply with this city from the fort and with the fort from this city will be permitted from and after this day. The mails, however, will continue to be transmitted as heretofore, until further instructions from the Confederate Government.

I remain, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

G.T. BEAUREGARD,
Brigadier- General, Commanding..



2,480 posted on 12/07/2004 10:08:37 AM PST by nolu chan
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