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To: nolu chan; capitan_refugio
Separation of powers. Sovereignty inheres to the people. The people delegated certain speicifed powers to the Constitutional government, and retained all others to themselves, less what they delegated to the State governments. At any time of their choosing, the people could again meet in convention in the exercise of their sovereign power and withdraw -all- powers from the Constitutional government and create a different form of government more to their liking. The sovereign power remains with the people. The Constitutional government only has delegated powers, not sovereignty.

We are in total agreement.

Lincoln and Madison held to the same principle.

Ultimate power resides in the people, not the States (per Calhoun)

The People delegate power to the various Governments.

Hence, the right of change any government is the right to revolution taking back that delegated power if it is being abused.

Secession was not the way to remove abuses, either the vote or revolution were the only alternatives.

2,185 posted on 12/03/2004 4:10:14 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
The People delegate power to the various Governments. Hence, the right of change any government is the right to revolution taking back that delegated power if it is being abused.

So impeachment is revolution? Delegation means that powers are transferred to an agent for a time - and the agent is always subordinate to the superior which delegated the powers in the first place.

The people of America know what they have relinquished for certain purposes. They also know that they retain every thing else, and have a right to resume what they have given up, if it be perverted from its intended object.
George Nicholas, Virginia Ratifying convention 10 Jun 1788

That resolution declares that the powers granted by the proposed Constitution are the gift of the people, and may be resumed by them when perverted to their oppression, and every power not granted thereby remains with the people, and at their will.
James Madison, Virginia Ratifying convention 24 Jun 1788


2,192 posted on 12/03/2004 8:02:51 AM PST by 4CJ (Laissez les bon FReeps rouler)
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To: fortheDeclaration
We are in total agreement.

Oh, let us not get too carried away. We are in partial agreement, but that is progress.

The People delegate power to the various Governments.

Hence, the right of change any government is the right to revolution taking back that delegated power if it is being abused.

About this, we disagree.

The people met and reclaimed their delegated powers from the government under the Articles of Confederation. There was no revolution. There was no need to demonstrate any power being abused. If the people are the sovereigns, they do not need permission from anyone to exercise their sovereign power.

The people in the aggregate do absolutely nothing under the Constitutional government. The constitutional government was formed after eleven ratifications were agreed upon. There were not millions of ratifications, but one for each state. The people organized themselves by state, and they acted by state. Each such group of people acted independently of the other twelve groups.

The sovereigns have the right of change of their government. They do not need to stage a revolution to exercise their rights. They need not justify the exercise of their rights to anyone. If they have the right to do something, that have that right even if exercising it would be an act of gross stupidity. They can exericise their rights for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all.

2,243 posted on 12/03/2004 9:54:19 PM PST by nolu chan
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