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To: nolu chan; capitan_refugio
When they had to use a civilian court, it became perfectly clear that the government had little chance of winning the case, and could not afford to lose the case. Because habeas corpus had been suspended nationwide for years, for years attorneys could do nothing for clients who were locked up without charges. A dream team of defense attorneys had volunteered to defend Davis.

Well, where else have seen a 'dream team'able to get a guilty man off?

As I said, Davis was a traitor, just not a convicted traitor.

Regarding the issue of Habeas Corpus Lincoln saw this issue as an issue of balance power between the Executive and Judical branch.

No different then Jackson had done.

Lincoln now took decisive measures to win the war. No American president had ever faced such a crisis, and Lincoln had to find for himself the necessary powers by which he could pursue the war and uphold his oath to "preserve, protect and defend" the Constitution of the United States. Recognizing the problem, Lincoln said, "It became necessary for me to choose whether, using only the existing means, agencies, and processes which Congress had provided, I should let the Government fall at once into ruin or whether, availing myself of the broader powers conferred by the Constitution in cases of insurrection, I would make an effort to save it." Lincoln found the necessary powers in the constitutional clause making him "Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several states." He told some visitors to the White House, "As commander in chief in time of war, I suppose I have a right to take any measure which may subdue the enemy." Using this power, Lincoln took a number of vital steps before Congress convened. Besides summoning the militia, he ordered a blockade of the Confederacy's ports, expanded the regular army beyond its legal limit, directed government expenditures in advance of congressional appropriations, and suspended the legal right of habeas corpus. The suspension of this constitutional guarantee, by which a person could not be imprisoned indefinitely without being charged with some specific crime, aroused much opposition throughout the country. Although Lincoln himself made no concentrated effort to suppress political opposition, which at times was extremely vocal, the repeal of habeas corpus enabled overzealous civil and military authorities to imprison thousands of people who were vocal in their opposition to the war against the South. During the war, in the case Ex parte Merryman, Chief Justice Taney ordered Lincoln to grant a writ of habeas corpus to a Southern agitator who had been arbitrarily jailed by military authorities in Maryland. Lincoln ignored the order. After the war, in the case Ex parte Milligan, in an opinion written by David Davis, the Supreme Court ruled that a president could not suspend habeas corpus without the consent of Congress.

Regarding the issue of Congress, Congress never did impeach Lincoln nor attempt to.

Jeff Davis used the same level of power as did Lincoln, if not more.

Nothing you have posted as disproved one thing that I have said, or what Capitan has said.

You do have a particular knack for beating dead horses, gnat straining, and being obnoxious.

Since you refuse to answer the question if you regard yourself as an American (an question no American would hesitate a moment to answer) I take your non-answer to be 'no'.

No doubt you and the rest of the Rebel Cabel are citizens of the world, living in the past, in the glory of the Confederate States of America, fighting against unfair tariff's and not allowing their property to be taken anywhere a free white man could go.

Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." --From the April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce et al

1,507 posted on 11/27/2004 5:25:26 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration
Regarding the issue of Habeas Corpus Lincoln saw this issue as an issue of balance power between the Executive and Judical branch.

No different then Jackson had done.

Hmmm. You'd better check Jackson's history with respect to habeas corpus again. From a US Department of Justice web site:

A very interesting case occurred during the tenure of United States Attorney John Dick in 1815. Just after the Battle of New Orleans during the War of 1812, United States Attorney Dick indicted Major General Andrew Jackson on charges of obstruction of justice. Jackson also was charged with contempt of court. According to the indictment, Jackson had "...disrespectfully wrested from the clerk an original order of the honorable the judge of this court, for the issuing of a writ of habeas corpus in the case of a certain Louis Louallier, then imprisoned by the said Major General Andrew Jackson." Jackson incurred the charges of obstruction when he imprisoned the judge who had charged him with contempt. When the future President of the United States appeared in court, he refused to answer the interrogatories and promptly received a fine of $1,000 which he paid and then left the court. Leaving the courthouse, Jackson stopped and spoke to a large crowd that had gathered:

"I have during the invasion (of New Orleans) exerted every one of my faculties for the defense and preservation of the Constitution and the laws. On this day I have been called upon to submit to their operations, under circumstances which many persons might have thought sufficient to justify resistance. Considering obedience to the laws, even when we think them unjustly applied, is the first duty of the citizen, and I do not hesitate to comply with the sentence you have heard pronounced; and I entreat you to remember the example I have given you of respectful submission to the administration of justice." (As quoted in Proceedings of the Louisiana Bar Association, 1898-1899, p. 120.)

Would that Lincoln had had that much respect for the law.

1,528 posted on 11/27/2004 8:24:30 AM PST by rustbucket
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To: fortheDeclaration
[ftD] Well, where else have seen a 'dream team'able to get a guilty man off?

Name someone and show your offer of proof that evidence was produced at his or her criminal trial proving beyond a doubt that he or she was guilty.

Assuming you are thinking of some case where the Government was not to freightened to present its non-case.

[ftD] As I said

Your say so is worth about as much as a sermon on sixth day creation and mud people by Brigade chaplain, and a prayer to the Lincoln bobblehead Brigade deity.

[ftD] During the war, in the case Ex parte Merryman, Chief Justice Taney ordered Lincoln to grant a writ of habeas corpus

WHERE DO YOU GET THESE LUNATIC NOTIONS?

The President does not grant writs of habeas corpus.

[ftD] Nothing you have posted as disproved one thing that I have said, or what Capitan has said.

In your cavernous mind.

[ftD] Since you refuse to answer the question if you regard yourself as an American (an question no American would hesitate a moment to answer) I take your non-answer to be 'no'.

You asked me if I regarded myself as an American or a Southerner. I told you your question had a false assumption on your part. Now you are forgetting half of your question.

USN, Ret. Now go hump a camel.

As you refust to answer the question if you regard yourself as a human or a reptile, I take your non-answer to be an admission that you are a reptile.

[ftD] Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it." --From the April 6, 1859 Letter to Henry Pierce et al

What did he say about draft-dodgers, draft-avoiders, and such???

1,598 posted on 11/27/2004 2:58:56 PM PST by nolu chan
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