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To: fortheDeclaration; GOPcapitalist; capitan_refugio
[ftD] Article 7 states that the States agreed unanimously as the Independent United States of America,

No it does not. I quote it in full below for all to see what it actually says.

Article 7 says "done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present...."

Rhode Island refused to participate and no representative was present.

The states represented at the Convention unanimously agreed to the draft of the Constitution to be "submitted to a Convention of Delegates, chosen in each State by the People thereof, under the Recommendation of its Legislature, for their Assent and Ratification...."

The States United did NOT approve of that recommendation. Rhode Island REFUSED to send a representative to the Convention. ONLY TWELVE STATES WERE REPRESENTED. Only ELEVEN states are listed by name when it came to "In convention ... present ... Resolved...." When one comes to New York, it reads "MR Hamilton from New York." Mr. Hamilton was not the only representative appointed by New York, but the others were no longer present. Mr. Hamilton lacked lawful authority to act individually on behalf of the state of New York. New York was not considered "present" either.

[ftD] The U.S. Constitution was ratified by the States United

This did not happen. George Washington was inaugurated with two states still not ratifying the Constitution -- North Carolina and Rhode Island. When the Constitutional government was formed, neither North Carolina nor Rhode Island had agreed to the Constitution, and neither was was a member of the new union, nor were they represented in the new Congress. Rhode Island held out for more than a year.

Washington was inaugurated March 4, 1789. North Carolina ratified on November 21, 1789. Rhode Island ratified on May 29, 1790.

Article. VII.

The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the same.

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America the Twelfth. In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,

Attest William Jackson
Secretary

Go. Washington
--Presidt. and deputy from Virginia

New Hampshire
John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman

Massachusetts
Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King

Connecticut
Wm Saml Johnson
Roger Sherman

New York
Alexander Hamilton

New Jersey
Wil: Livingston
David Brearley.
Wm Patterson.
Jona: Dayton

Pennsylvania
B Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
Robt Morris
Geo. Clymer
Thos FitzSimons
Jared Ingersol
James Wilson
Gouv Morris

Delaware
Geo: Read
Gunning Bedford jun
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jaco: Broom

Maryland
James McHenry
Dan of St Thos Jenifer
Danl Carroll

Virginia
John Blair--
James Madison Jr.

North Carolina
Wm Blount
Richd Dobbs Spaight
Hu Williamson
J. Rutledge

South Carolina
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler

Georgia
William Few
Abr Baldwin

In Convention Monday, September 17th 1787. Present The States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, MR Hamilton from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.

Resolved,

That the preceeding Constitution be laid before the United States in Congress assembled, and that it is the Opinion of this Convention, that it should afterwards be submitted to a Convention of Delegates, chosen in each State by the People thereof, under the Recommendation of its Legislature, for their Assent and Ratification; and that each Convention assenting to, and ratifying the Same, should give Notice thereof to the United States in Congress assembled. Resolved, That it is the Opinion of this Convention, that as soon as the Conventions of nine States shall have ratified this Constitution, the United States in Congress assembled should fix a Day on which Electors should be appointed by the States which shall have ratified the same, and a Day on which the Electors should assemble to vote for the President, and the Time and Place for commencing Proceedings under this Constitution. That after such Publication the Electors should be appointed, and the Senators and Representatives elected: That the Electors should meet on the Day fixed for the Election of the President, and should transmit their Votes certified, signed, sealed and directed, as the Constitution requires, to the Secretary of the United States in Congress assembled, that the Senators and Representatives should convene at the Time and Place assigned; that the Senators should appoint a President of the Senate, for the sole Purpose of receiving, opening and counting the Votes for President; and, that after he shall be chosen, the Congress, together with the President, should, without Delay, proceed to execute this Constitution.

By the Unanimous Order of the Convention

Go: Washington--Presidt. W. Jackson Secretary.


1,032 posted on 11/24/2004 7:10:38 AM PST by nolu chan
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To: nolu chan; capitan_refugio
This is exactly what it says, The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same. done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independence of the United States of America

Let me see, I see Virgina, Georgia and North Carolina and South Carolina, so we can say that they were at least part of the United States of America.

The point is that the South made sure that their Constitution did not it was the Confederate States of America.

Washington, however, had no qualms calling the signing states (which were present) the United States of America.

The South understand the difference and made sure they did not do the same thing.

I take your line of argument as akin to throwing up dust in the air.

What point are you making that disputes my assertion that the Constitution was considered the uniting of the states into the United States of America?

1,036 posted on 11/24/2004 7:32:16 AM PST by fortheDeclaration
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