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1 posted on 09/20/2004 9:11:36 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: Jeff Chandler

“But change is always good,” he added. “So we are just welcoming it.”


That says it all.


2 posted on 09/20/2004 9:37:29 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: Jeff Chandler

Many of these LifeTeen "Masses" may be invalid anyway - changed or unchanged.
The late, great Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani penned a thorough critique of "the great sacrilege" (to use the title of Father Wathen's notable book on the subject).
Neo-Catholics contend that Cardinal Ottaviani later retracted his cutting written comments.
Here's traditio.com's answer to that charge...
What can you tell your participants about the purported Ottaviani statements supposedly retracting his condemnation of the "New Mass"?

Fr. Moderator Replies.

This case provides a good example why the internet is a dangerous source when people don't have the knowledge to analyze the information they receive. The New Order's cover story that Alfredo Cardinal Ottaviani changed his mind about his document, authored in conjunction with Antonio Cardinal Bacci and several Roman theologians, condemning the New Order as unCatholic and even invalid, has long ago been shown to be an "urban myth."

The proponents of the New Order were devastated to have the Church's highest theological authority and a President of the Vatican II Council publicly question the validity of the so-called "New Mass" and to have had Pope Paul VI admit the validity of Cardinal Ottaviani's charge by recalling the Novus Ordo Missae in 1969, just after it was issued.

In an effort to counter the Cardinal's charges of unCatholicity and even invalidity, which stand true to this day, the New Order cooked up a phony "cover story" that the Cardinal had "retracted" his statement. This story interestingly parallels the deceit that the English bishops had used with St. Joan of Arc, claiming that she had retracted her statements. Of course, both stories are lies.

A purported letter of February 17, 1970, supposedly with the Cardinal's signature, was adduced to prove the story. However, by that date it is known that the Cardinal, then 80, was totally blind and would not have known what he was signing when presented with the purposed letter by his secretary, Msgr. Gilberto Agustoni.

Now it has come to light that this Agustoni was a member of the Consilium which that fabricated the "New Mass" and which the Arch-Architect of the New Order service, Hannibal Bugnini, led. At the time, Jean Madiran, the editor of the respected French journal Itineraires, publicly accused Agustoni of obtaining the Cardinal's signature by fraud. As a result, Agustoni was fired as the Cardinal's secretary.

So, it seems that Agustoni insinuated his way into becoming the Cardinal's secretary and in that position created a fraud in an attempt to undermine the Cardinal's public document, which questioned the validity of the New Order service, by a phony "retraction," which Agustoni had himself written with others. In any case, co-author Antonio Cardinal Bacci and the Roman theologians never "retracted," in any manner, shape, or form the devastating document, which they courageously published.

The moral of this story is that the New Order will resort even to fraud and lies to relieve itself of the embarrassment of having its New Order service called what it putatively is -- invalid. One can only think of the mountains of lies that New Order bishops have told to conceal the gross immoralities going on in their dioceses, which are starting to topple those bishops, ten of whom have been indicated or resigned, two of whose dioceses have now come under court supervision.

In many ways, this fraudulent cover-story is reminiscent of the current "Rather-gate," in which CBS News and newscaster Dan Rather are embroiled because of their acceptance of phony documents on President Bush forged by his political enemies.

Plus ça change, plus ça même chose.


8 posted on 09/21/2004 5:38:20 PM PDT by AskStPhilomena
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To: Jeff Chandler

>>Life Teen Liturgy Experiences Changes<<

Its voice is starting to change, its getting zits, and finding itself watching members of the opposite sex in gym class.


61 posted on 09/22/2004 10:04:13 AM PDT by dangus
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To: AskStPhilomena; dsc; Arguss; sinkspur; Land of the Irish; Grey Ghost II
Oh, for crying out loud!

The Holy Father corrects a liturgical abuse, and his children CHILDREN!!! obey him with joy in their hearts. One says that she is always desiring improvement in imperfect language ("change is always good) and a bunch of mean-spirited, hateful, paranoid lunatics attack as if she just proclaimed her soul belongs to Satan.

SHAME ON YOU!!!

SHAME ON YOU!!!

You pharisees, you brood of vipers!

The spirtually poor come begging at your door, and you kick their teeth down their throats!

62 posted on 09/22/2004 10:28:08 AM PDT by dangus
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To: Jeff Chandler

What in hell is a Life Teen mass?


71 posted on 09/22/2004 3:19:17 PM PDT by Xenalyte (Anything is possible when you don't understand how anything happens.)
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