Posted on 09/20/2004 9:11:36 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler
Life Teen Liturgy Experiences Changes
By Claudia I. Provencio The Catholic Sun
MESA In joyful obedience to the Church, Life Teen officials say they will cease the ministrys longtime trademark of gathering teens arm-in-arm around the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer.
The practice that has been a staple at Life Teen Masses nationwide for nearly two decades will cease Oct. 1 in compliance with the revised General Instruction of the Roman Missal.
The youth ministry will also refrain from using the phrase, The Mass never ends, it must be lived at the conclusion of the liturgy.
In a recent letter to U.S. bishops, priests and diocesan youth offices, Life Teen founder Msgr. Dale Fushek asked member parishes to joyfully comply with the directives in a spirit of obedience.
Our understanding is that the sanctuary space around the altar is to remain separated from the rest of the assembly, said Phil Baniewicz, president of Life Teen International.
The modifications are designed to enhance liturgical uniformity, he said.
In a video sent to 920 parishes in the United States and 50 abroad, Msgr. James Moroney, executive director of the U.S. bishops Committee on Liturgy, said, Life Teen is like a precious gem in the Churchs crown.
But gems and jewels sometimes need to get polished and even have their settings rearranged, he said.
At Life Teens request, Msgr. Moroney and Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation of Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in Rome, provided direction prompting the liturgical changes.
Hector Cervantes, a core member for 18 months at the Life Teen hub, St. Timothy Parish in Mesa, said the cessation of gathering at the altar helps people focus more on the Mass and on the Eucharist.
Prior to the implementation of the changes at the Mesa parish Sept. 5, he said core members were constantly having to make sure the kids behaved and didnt talk during the Eucharistic Prayer.
However, the 23-year-old, who has attended St. Timothys for as long as I can remember, said the modifications will take a little getting used to. But change is always good, he added. So we are just welcoming it.
Bri Morsa, a Life Teen core member at St. Gabriel the Archangel, said she heard no complaints from teens when the Cave Creek parish implemented the changes Sept. 5.
The flow of the Mass hasnt changed. The teens have responded in obedience, Morsa said. The change doesnt affect them because thats not what theyre about. What I see in the teens is that no matter what goes on, they are there for the presence of the Lord.
Old habits may die hard, she said, but the modifications to the Life Teen liturgy didnt prevent people from concluding the Mass with a prayerful heart and a joyful voice.
I always though God could change hearts and minds. Now I know there a deacon in Texas that does it. I'm sorry I wasted all those years praying to the wrong guy.
Through human instruments.
Get off the smart-aleck thing, will you?
I didn't ask not to be pinged. What are you talking about? Are you drinking?
I'll stop the smart-aleck thing if you admit that God, and God alone (that means without any human instrument), has the power to change someone's heart and mind resulting in a conversion. Is it a deal?
No I am not drinking. I save up my daily allotment for one good night on the weekend.
I wasn't referring to you. I copied you on the post because I mentioned your name. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Just trying to follow proper protocol.
No.
So, you think that somebody who's never heard of God or His Church will just, by magic, convert to something he's never heard of?
Conversion is a decision, and even an ignorant person must have a minimal bit of information before he can make a decision.
Where does that information come from, if not from a human agent?
I think not. You trail these threads, post snide comments and expect to be irreproachable, just as your hero, Black Elk, has demanded of himself.
This article may prove useful...
http://www.seattlecatholic.com/article_20031027.html
Was there a human agent involved when God gave Moses the Ten Commandments?
I don't need verbage from an integrist web site to know that the Novus Ordo closely resembles the Eucharist in the Didache. I've read the Didache, several times. There's also a short passage from it in The Catholic Catechism. You can look it up yourself.
Bad analogy. I'm not going to get into scriptural exegesis with you. Try again. Come up with a modern-day conversion where no human agent was involved.
"No one has said that."
Well, if 19 centuries of guidance by the Spiritum Sanctum failed to produce any improvement, then the only possible conclusion is that the guidance of the Spiritum Sanctum is without effect and futile.
If it is not without effect and futile, then 19 centuries of guidance must have produced some results, wouldn't you say?
"it seems to me you're saying that the Masses that the apostles said were somehow junk food to what came along during the following 1000 years."
1. Pork and beans are not junk food; they are plain food.
2. We're not talking about something that just "came along," we're talking about the fruits of the Spiritum Sanctum's guidance.
So,yes--given our premises (that the Church enjoys the guidance of the Spiritum Sanctum and that this guidance is efficacious) it is necessary to conclude that the Mass improved with the passing centuries.
"Somehow I can't grasp that any Mass said by the apostles could not be as holy and true"
No one has said that the Masses said by the apostles were not holy and true. But the Mass also has the functions of supporting faith and strengthening the hearts of the faithful; of inspiring them, of being fruitful ground for vocations, of making converts...many things beyond the absolute minimum of "validity." The Church must be strong medicine to prevail over a culture of death.
And it is here that one runs up against the inferiority of the NO, of ICEL materials, of the whole onslaught of the left that is often referred to as "The Spirit of Vatican II."
It clearly demonstrates the miraculous nature of the Church that even the NO is efficacious...but it is less efficacious. It is as though we agreed to trade the Sistene Chapel for a painting of Roy Orbison done on black velvet.
I mean, yeah, it's a painting, but...
That run-in I had with those two priests over my daughter kneeling for communion brought it into focus. I rather expected that one of them at least would be inclined to discuss the matter. That wasn't the case, but one thing I planned to ask was this: "As a priest, why do you insist that people show **less** reverence for the Body of Christ?"
That's a pretty good weathervane. When someone acting in the name of the Church is insisting on less reverence--whether it's hokey music, a dumbed-down litergy, wreckovated churches, bare-tit masses, or any of the abuses so often cited here--that is the authentic voice of Satan, and there you are dealing with the modernist heresy.
"It is as though we agreed to trade the Sistene Chapel for a painting of Roy Orbison done on black velvet."
A very good analogy.
2 |
You know that when you were heathens, you went to dumb idols, according as you were led. |
3 |
Wherefore, I give you to understand that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say The Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost. |
4 |
Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit. |
5 |
And there are diversities of ministries. but the same Lord. |
6 |
And there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all in all. |
7 |
And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man unto profit. |
8 |
To one indeed, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit: |
9 |
To another, faith in the same spirit: to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit: |
10 |
To another the working of miracles: to another, prophecy: to another, the discerning of spirits: to another, diverse kinds of tongues: to another, interpretation of speeches. |
11 |
But all these things, one and the same Spirit worketh, dividing to every one according as he will. |
12 |
For as the body is one and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body: So also is Christ. |
13 |
For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free: and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. |
14 |
For the body also is not one member, but many. |
15 |
If the foot should say: Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body: Is it therefore not of the Body? |
16 |
And if the ear should say: Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body: Is it therefore not of the body? |
17 |
If the whole body were the eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? |
18 |
But now God hath set the members, every one of them, in the body as it hath pleased him. |
19 |
And if they all were one member, where would be the body? |
20 |
But now there are many members indeed, yet one body. |
21 |
And the eye cannot say to the hand: I need not thy help. Nor again the head to the feet: I have no need of you. |
22 |
Yea, much, more those that seem to be the more feeble members of the body are more necessary |
23 |
And such as we think to be the less honourable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honour: and those that are our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. |
24 |
But our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, giving to that which wanted the more abundant honour. |
25 |
That there might be no schism in the body: but the members might be mutually careful one for another. |
26 |
And if one member suffer any thing, all the members suffer with it: or if one member glory, all the members rejoice with it. |
27 |
Now you are the body of Christ and members of member. |
28 |
And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors: after that miracles: then the graces of healings, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. |
29 |
Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? |
30 |
Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? |
31 |
But be zealous for the better gifts. And I shew unto you yet a more excellent way. |
It's clear that 'somebody' has never experienced a true conversion.
As a friendly word of advice, please read ch.3, Article 1 of the CCC. That will keep you from sounding like you know absolutely nothing of the faith.
I really wasn't going to get into this discussion, but you are so deluded, as to be misrepresenting the faith. This is one of the richest chapters in the whole CCC
A preview: "It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For 'no one can say 'Jesus is Lord' except by the Holy Spirit."
"Faith is a gift of God. A supernatural virtue infused by Him. Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the Grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart, and converts it to God."
Man does not truly move another man to God.
Glory be to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.
I've got an idea. Let's shut down all the Catholic schools, all the RCIA programs, and individual instruction programs.
We don't need them, according to you. All we need do is pray, and the world will be converted.
Talk about delusion.
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