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To: capitan_refugio
This is a conservative forum. "Free Republic is an online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web. We're working to roll back decades of governmental largess, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America."

Yes, I want to root out the Lincoln bloat.

I post informational documentation to support my views. It almost always comes from recognized authorities in their field. You don't agree with much of it, and have trouble refuting it. Instead, you make ad hominem attacks.

Farber? ROTFL. Nolu chan, GOPCapitalist et al post from LEGAL, not informational, Supreme Court decisions, the Federalist Papers, the constitutional convention debates, the LEGAL state ratifications, and the LEGAL Declarations of Secession

FR is for people who, like the founder, believe in and support their country and the principles it stands for, and hope to make it a better place. You reject many of those principles; you pine for a time when states could perpetuate great social evils; when the vision of the founders for human equality meant nothing.

No pining for anything of the sort. What is longed for is a government of checks and balances, as the founders wrote it, before Lincoln the Usurper crossed the Rubicon and became Caesar, assuming the duties of the legislative and judicial branches. Regarding your bloviating and asinine opinion about the founders vision of equality, as I posted yesterday, the very FIRST federal citizenship act applied to whites only.

The Confederacy was the antithesis of the nation envisioned by Madison, Jefferson, Washington, Hamilton, and ultimately, by Lincoln.

The Confederacy duplicated almost everything within the federal [not national] Constitution. I reject the monarchial views held by Hamilton. Jefferson and Madison were anti-federalists, Washington and Hamilton federalists. I most decidedly reject the white supremacist/separatist views of Lincoln.

True conservatives believe in equal opportunity, not equal outcome. The Confederacy did not believe in equality at all.

Anybody see the pattern here? When did the Union end slavery? Ever hear of the 13th Amendment? When did all the Northern black laws end? When were blacks not discriminated against?

That is incompatible with your neo-reb denial of a binding national covenant called the Constitution.

First and foremost, nowhere does it state that it is permanent and inescapable. What it does contain is Amendment X, which states that the powers NOT delegated [look up the definition] by the Constitution [which were delegated by the states] to the federal government, and those not prohibited by it [the Constitution, not the federal government] to the states, remain with the states.

The Confederacy did not respect individual dignity and freedom, unless you were rich and white.

Anybody see a pattern here? I guess that explains all those rich, white Yankees sailing to Africa for their boatloads of human flesh, their industrial sweat shops where millions worked for subsistence wages. I guess that explains the millions of ex-slaves that fled to Union states, oops, I'm sorry, that never happened. Northern states had black codes and laws to prevent equality, to prevent emmigration by blacks into their states, even fines and punishment for doing so.

Another tenet of the Republican party is that "I believe in equal rights, equal justice, and equal opportunity for all, regardless of race, creed, age, sex, or national origin." In the 1860's, this was not obtainable, but it was a goal that I believe Lincoln would have supported. Again, it is not compatible with Confederate dogma.

Bravo Sierra. Lincoln is on record almost till his dying day advocating for blacks to be colonized/repatriated out of the US. Days before his death he talked with Gen. Benjamin Butler about rewarding blacks with an all-expense paid trip to Panama to dig a canal.

And the Republican Party has always stood for the ideal that "the most effective, responsible, and responsive government is government closest to the people."

Not Lincoln's, anyone that thought differently was thrown into prison.

The function of the national government is to guarantee the promises of the Preamble and the vision of the Declaration.

There are no powers delegated by the Preamble, it's a statement of intent. The Declaration of Independence is not codified within the Constitution.

The Confederacy was not about "liberty" - it wouldn't allow liberty or the full benefits of citizenship to most of its residents.

Anybody see a pattern here? The Declaration Of Independence freed how many union slaves?

Lincoln, on the other hand, was determined that "government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from this earth."

Was the Confederacy attempting to destroy the Union? That government never disappeared and it was never under attack. Lincoln was the consummate liar. The Great Prevaricator.

The liberty that hundreds of millions of people enjoy today is the legacy of Lincoln, because he refused to allow the self-serving southern "leadership" destroy the Union.

Lincoln supported a constitutional amendment ensuring that blacks could be enslaved forever, and wanted to deport as many as he could out of the country. It wasn't Lincoln.

394 posted on 08/31/2004 6:45:08 AM PDT by 4CJ (||) Men die by the calendar, but nations die by their character. - John Armor, 5 Jun 2004 (||)
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To: 4ConservativeJustices; capitan_refugio
Anybody see the pattern here? When did the Union end slavery? Ever hear of the 13th Amendment? When did all the Northern black laws end? When were blacks not discriminated against?

I read something interesting the other day. As late as 1868 the Republican Party Platform called for voting rights for blacks in the southern states but NOT in the northern states, who they said could go about denying the right to vote all they wanted!

"The guaranty by Congress of equal suffrage to all loyal men at the South was demanded by every consideration of public safety, of gratitude, and of justice, and must be maintained; while the question of suffrage in all the loyal States properly belongs to the people of those States." - Plank 2, Republican Party Platform of 1868

410 posted on 08/31/2004 9:15:17 AM PDT by GOPcapitalist ("Can Lincoln expect to subjugate a people thus resolved? No!" - Sam Houston, 3/1863)
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