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To: capitan_refugio
[You, quoting Farber] "The first argument for extensive crisis authority posits the existence of extraconstitutional powers, vested in the president not by the Constitution, but by the very nature of his position as chief executive of a nation. If there are essential powers that go with nationhood and cannot be effectively exercised by other organs of government, then the mere act of creating a nation might be thought to convey these powers, without the need for any specific constitutional language." [Emphasis added.]

The Nazi Germans called that idea das Fuehrerprinzip. It was the keystone of Nazi jurisprudence and political science. Millions of Germans died carrying it into effect, and they killed millions of others before they died themselves. And you let Farber wave that bloody banner here, under the same excuse Hitler himself used to seize it -- "crisis authority"?

What a wonderful idea. Let a man win an election, invent a crisis, claim crisis authority, and then ride the People down into a mass grave.

No, I don't think even Hamilton had that in mind.

301 posted on 08/29/2004 5:07:37 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
"What a wonderful idea. Let a man win an election, invent a crisis, claim crisis authority, and then ride the People down into a mass grave."

Your lack of perspective and misinterpretation of history is puzzling.

(1) "Let a man win an election" - Yes, Lincoln won a lawful election conducted under the rules of the Constitution.

(2) "invent a crisis" - Several states had already purported to secede from the Union, seize federal armories and property, and commit other acts of aggression well before Lincoln was ever sworn in as President.

(3) "claim crisis authority" - As was Lincoln's constitutional duty.

(4) "then ride the People down into a mass grave" - Melodramatic and inaccurate. Most of the Northern soldier were volunteers, intent, like Lincoln, on preserving the constitutional Union and punishing southern lawlessness. If the southerners ended up in a "mass grave" (I presume you do not mean that in the literal sense, but if you do, you might want to expand upon your point), it was the logical and lawful result of their own mistaken beliefs. Whether the South participated in armed insurrection, or as I have often suggested, fought a war for independence, the consequences of being on the losing side were obviously not going to be good.

310 posted on 08/29/2004 5:59:32 PM PDT by capitan_refugio
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To: lentulusgracchus

Remember, at FR the first person to invoke the "Nazi" comparison loses by default. Lincoln acted according to the principles upon which this nation was founded.


312 posted on 08/29/2004 6:09:20 PM PDT by capitan_refugio
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