Posted on 08/20/2004 5:43:21 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861
PLEASE continue to post. you are one of the southland's BEST recruiters, as you change neutrals into southrons & that is a GOOD THING.
YOU serve the RISEN SOUTH!
free dixie,sw
His position is reasonable, in that Lincoln had no warrant to make war on the Southern States that had withdrawn from the Union.
You will recall that Tennessee, Missouri, and Virginia had all rejected secession initially. In the case of Virginia, rejection was by the secession convention called specifically to consider the question. That should tell you something about what it took to push Virginia and Tennessee over the edge. It was Lincoln's call for troops to go kill people in the other States.
Lincoln couldn't argue "insurrection", since there was no "uprising" or "rebellion" or similar civil disorder certified to him by the governors of the Southern States. Gov. Sam Houston of Texas even refused Lincoln's solicitation of a certification, with its offer of 75,000 men stapled to it, and certified the opposite by his actions: that Texas's secession, like the secession acts of each of the other States, was a lawful act of the entire People of Texas, and that they had acted wholly within their powers to make the decision to secede.
Lincoln, absent a declaration of war by the Congress, without any true certification of rebellion or insurrection, had no right to proceed to war. We might argue, conditionally, about what might have been required for him to wage war constitutionally on the newly-estranged States, had Congress sat to consider the question.
But the bottom line is that Congress did not sit to consider secession, Lincoln did not recall the House to consider articles of war, he did not seek the advice and consent of the Senate. Instead, he undertook a clandestine and left-handed decision for war. War was his policy, undertaken as soon as the House adjourned. He did so wilfully and extraconstitutionally, from the standpoint of the United States Constitution and the U.S. political system, and as an alien aggressor from the POV of the seceding States.
Thus GOPcapitalist has made a strong case, that Lincoln's responsibility -- which Lincoln himself gave voice on at least one occasion -- for the WBTS was very grave, and that having no warrant to wage it, his actions were wanton and burdened accordingly.
Violence in posts and personally abusive invective (Capitan_refugio's #1488 having been called to my attention) are mentioned in FR's TOS, but it seems to me that outright deception and dishonesty in argument is likewise abusive of all other persons reading a thread, including lurkers, whom such deceptions are intended to mislead.
"Catch me if you can" may be a standard operating practice for a liberal troll or a Marxist apparatchik "plying his avocation", but I thought conservatives were better than that.
There are a number of people with whom we've shared differences but haven't ever had to put up with this kind of intent to mislead and deceive. Citing a contaminated Supreme Court opinion like Texas vs. White (or the infamous anti-RKBA 1939 Miller decision, or Plessey vs. Ferguson, or Roe vs. Wade) is one thing, but just making stuff up by transposing briefs, pleas, and holdings for one another is something I don't think readers of these threads ought to have to put up with.
Respectfully request removal of the posts nolu chan cites as disinformative and deceptive.
An honest poster would have made the request of AM's himself, immediately the error had been brought to his attention.
You're a loony.
As did I. Then again, perhaps the persons in question are not truly conservatives. Capitan does have a tendency to take the "CBS News" approach to historical documentation.
For a person who proclaims his hatred of Lincoln, his endorsement of legal slavery, and who is a poster who hurls invective and innuendo with the worst of them,
I find it very disappointing that you would run to the admin moderator instead of standing on your own two feet.
The reason this type of post is called a "hairball" is that it is repetitive and disingenuous. You keep coughing them up.
As for you and your neo-confederate "friends" - gianni, 4conservativejustice, GOPcapitalist, and lentulusgracchus - your modus operandi is to smear and misrepresent. You revel in quoting Hitler and the most miserable of anti-American texts. I invite the moderators to review all of my posts! All of them. You'll find in four years I have had exactly two pulled - neither for overt profanity. So my posting record is virtually impeccable.
Your little tantrum here is rather embarrassing. If you can not debate the issues, then I suggest you stay off of these threads. You have chosen the loathsome task of defending the actions and the principles of the Confederacy.
None of my posts are outrightly deceptive or dishonest. Whenever I make a mistake, I correct it. There is nothing there dishonest or deceptive.
And you can me abusive? Can you justify your personal attack "a liberal troll or a Marxist apparatchik"? You must not see my post conserning Tom McClintock and conservative activism in the liberal state like California. My conservative credentials are unquestionable.
If you have a problem with the posts, then refute them. You don't do that, insterad you resort to personal attacks. I can take it, because of the fundamental correctness of my postion. The Republican Party is the "Party of Lincoln." As an avowed Lincoln-hater, this must really bother you, and must, in part, underlie your desire to have posts defending Lincoln and the cause of the North in the Civil War pulled.
I feel sorry for you.
As in my two previous posts, I point out yet again the neo-reb proclivity for ad hominem attacks. When you wallow in the cesspool, you're going to end up dirty.
...so says the guy who posts tracts from left wing reparationists, marxists, and berkeleyite wackos while making Stalinist endorsements of torture, arson, and other fundamentally unamerican abuses of civil liberties under the guise of defending his false idol.
"All the News that Fits"/"Whatever Works", eh? A friend who recently joined her county Democrats just sent me a CNN story spinning furiously on Iraq and quoting GOP senators (Hagel, McCain, Lindsay Graham, Lugar, Kyl) on Iraq to try to sell the "Bush is Lying to Us" line. I replied to her that if she were genuinely interested in discussing it -- which I challenged, based on earlier conversations -- she could use some of her free long-distance cellular minutes to call me next weekend and chat it up. I don't think my phone will ring. The whole country is so split along political lines, it really is realistic to speak of two countries again, just as in the 1850's.
Of course, our Marxist historian and poly-sci friends have been vigorously promoting this.......I wonder to what end?
</sarcasm>
By the way, my own cure for the "split" is to kick New England out of the Union, together with the east bank of the Hudson as high as the Fish Kill River. Let them join their socialist-meme pod-people pals in Canada.
And we get the western and northwestern provinces, of course, and all that Alberta natural gas and great BC coastline. And the northern archipelago, too, of course, west of Prince of Wales Island, and the Yukon and Nunavut.
Seems fair to me. We'd exile about 26,000,000 cranky, greedy liberals, and get about 12,000,000 relatively conservative Canadians in return -- including most of the ones who know how to mine gold, drill oil wells, and brew beer.
What could be a better or fairer deal?
I leave this one up to you mods. You can cowtow to the demands of the neo-confederate cabal, or you can stand up for the principles of the forum and the founder. It's not a difficult question.
CBS News => knowingly created false contents in four separate national guard memos to smear President Bush.
capitan_refugion => knowingly inserted false contents into four separate Supreme Court rulings to smear various southerners.
HEY CAPITAN! IF THE SHOE FITS....
free dixie,sw
color me PALEO-Confederate and i'll HAPPILY agree with the label.
otoh, the unionist loonies on FR (like heyworth, ditto,x,whisky papa,et.al.) post NOTHING of VALUE, but instead go about posting HATEFILLED, IGNORANT,SELF-RIGHTEOUS NONSENSE & trying "to dress that drivel up" as something worth reading.
NOT a single time has ANY of the unionist loonies EVER posted any ORIGIONAL SOURCE DATA for his/her rantings & lunatic, UNtruthful ANTI-southern nonsense. otoh, he/she/it are REALLY good at "namecalling" & PERSONAL attacks.
i asked one of them the other day for his ORIGIONAL SOURCE DOCUMENT & he/she gave me a (IRRELEVANT!) citation from an ENCYCLOPEDIA! (perhaps ORIGIONAL SOURCES post HISTORICAL DOCUMENTS in encyclopedias in his/her twisted world, but NOT in the REAL world that the rest of us reside in.)
free dixie,sw
free dixie,sw
Really? Cause that makes for three deceptions, all of the uncorrected, right there.
The Republican Party is the "Party of Lincoln."
It was at one time. It generally has not been since 1964 in all parts of the nation, and it never has been during its post reconstruction existence in the south. My state even bears the unusual distinction of never having been under Lincoln's rule since we left before he was inaugurated and were the last to come back well after his assassination. So why should the Republican Party of Texas celebrate a man who never did any good for our state, never ruled our state, and was despised by our state's heroes and founders such as Sam Houston?
The only reason he uses that term is its pejorative value. In short, he likes to be intentionally inflamatory.
Concurring Bump.
Oh, I agree fully. I would not lament for one moment if Massachusetts desired to leave. Heck, I may even support a vote to simply kick them out! That state is a disease upon this nation. Of the few conservatives who still live there, I fully sympathize with their plight and would offer them every opportunity to relocate. But there's no longer any reason to try and save the rot that is new england.
unionists are like that.
free dixie,sw
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