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Did Lincoln talk to Baldwin about his revenue problems? It's certainly not proven, anymore than any account of a private meeting between two people can be taken for granted as being true. We have no way of knowing what was actually said, but somehow the questions and responses don't fit.

Baldwin testified under oath that he did. And Botts testified that Lincoln himself told Botts in 1861, not 1866 after hearing Baldwin's testimony.

Did Lincoln make the commment, "And what is to become of the revenue? "I shall have no government, no resources!" to the YMCA delegation. I don't know.

If he didn't, I'm certain that either the man of the cloth to whom those comments were addressed, or the man they are attributed to would have demanded an aplogoy.

One of the more repellent things about today's neoconfederates is how they begin with the line that they are just trying to defend the honor of their ancestors, and end by making monsters out of those on the other side, taking the radical line that it was "all about" money or malevolence.

Slavery was constitutional. Secession was not unconstitutional. Lincoln caused the death of over 1 million needlessly. He refused to abide by decisons of the courts, or to be a statesman and negotiate peaceful terms.

Yet I'm told that my ancestors were traitors and deserved death????? My and other families somehow deserved to have their women raped and killed by "noble" yankees, our homes burned, our cherished possesions stolen, our lands seized, simply because we desired freedom?

Once again, Botts testified as to the existence of an offered bargain, not that Lincoln mentioned his revenue problems to Baldwin, and Baldwin and Botts disagreed about whether or not such a bargain existed. Botts wrote an account of what he was told about the meeting in 1861. It differed from what Baldwin would later maintain, and the testimonies and controversy date from 1861. What Lincoln might have said about the tariff wasn't a subject of the debate. Botts neither confirms nor denies Baldwin's representation. It's worth noting that the idea that Lincoln spoke to Baldwin about the tariff first appears in Baldwin's 1866 testimony and pamphlet, after the Baltimore Sun quote had been in circulation in the Confederacy for four or five years.

Whether the Sun quote is true or false isn't established. Those who use the quote may not interested in verifying it. I simply point out that the paper was quite ill-disposed to Lincoln. And of course, in times of crisis presidents have far too many pressing things to deal with to write letters to every paper that maligns them. For one thing, it doesn't pay to give those who are hostile the attention. And their may be so many critics or attackers that the country's work would never get done.

In sending out Secession Commissioners and calling for a large army, Davis gave a clear signal to Northerners that he wanted to break up the Union and get as many pieces for his own government as he could. He couldn't claim to simply be an unconcerned and innocent bystander in the dissolution of the nation.

Your thinking precedes from the assumption that unilateral secession was constitutional. But this is precisely what was at issue. There were real differences of opinion on this issue, and where such differences of opinion exist, it's up to those who want to change things not to behave provocatively.

FWIW, my comments on age weren't addressed to you. Perhaps it wasn't the best way to put the issue either: after 911 even the youngest among us who lived through 911 ought to be able to remember the uncertainty and chaos and terror of the moment and better understand previous historical crises.

"Yet I'm told that my ancestors were traitors and deserved death????? My and other families somehow deserved to have their women raped and killed by "noble" yankees, our homes burned, our cherished possesions stolen, our lands seized, simply because we desired freedom?"

Yep, that's what they're saying. One even says it was good for their souls, and we should be grateful this was done to our families. I had thought there was only one of 'em who'd embraced such evil to this degree. I see now there are at least three. Probably, all the yanktrolls think this way.

May God have mercy on them.