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To: narses

And certainly the worst that I recall, if the initial press reports are true.

Oesterreich has been a problem for quite a while, and it's complicated by the very active political situation over there.

I forget the name of the guy, but some former muckety-muck was honored by JPII (minor deal)--and was promptly accused of being a Nazi collaborator.

You likely noticed that the Green Party (same bunch as ours here, but MUCH better entrenched and more populous over there) got its nose into this.

Groelsch had "the problem," and obviously he was not the only one. This will bear some watching as it unfolds.


73 posted on 07/12/2004 6:25:40 PM PDT by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ninenot

"This will bear some watching as it unfolds."

This and HUNDREDS of others, here and abroad. Watching them will be like watching a poor C grade pornfest. Ugh.

July is the Month of the Precious Blood. How many Drops of His Holy Blood are shed for these sins?


79 posted on 07/12/2004 6:28:33 PM PDT by narses (If you want ON or OFF my Catholic Ping List email me. +)
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To: ninenot
Austria has been a problem and I am not quite sure why but I kind of expected something scandalous like this. My entire family went over to Vienna to celebrate my dad's eightieth birthday in 1990. We went on a lot of tours which included Salzburg,Vienna,Graz and many little towns high in the Alps.

Although most people were very Catholic,Austria had over 92% baptized Catholics,which was the highest per centage of Catholics in Europe and the highest literacy rate in Europe,(over 90%)but it was very polarized,when one scratched beneatht the surface. I offer that per centage tidbit because if flies in the face of generally accepted information,i.e.Catholic nations are poor and uneducated. Austria was neither.

Many tour guides spoke of the Catholicity of the country,mentioning specifically that after the war,Soviet troops were all over the country and intended to stay as they had in Hungary,Czechoslovakia,Poland etc. The Cardinal/archbishop of Vienna asked that Austrians pray a Rosary and ask for Mary's intervention to save them from Communism. The story goes that on the first Sunday after this appeal,the Soviets withdrew their troops and vanished. All of the cemetaries had fresh flowers on every grave.And yet,about every fourth bus driver,tour guide or museum curator would be very demeaning and dismissive of the country's religiosity and mention bishops of the past who bought their positions to name just one offense that was mentioned frequently. Most involved greed and avarice.I will say that except for Crazy Ludwig there was no mention of homosexuality as one of the major problems in the Church. Nonetheless,it was apparent that there were deep divisions in the population. So I guess I am not surprised at this turn of events although I am heartbroken. I would say there were some catholics in "deep cover" there.

One more comment which may be a little off point but as you know or may not,I have spent the last ten years attending all sorts of catechism classes,catholic forums and conferences,lectures and celebratory Masses in order to relate to kindred Catholics or to know the enemy and also to present Catholic teaching by questioning facilitators and change agents. Interesting to me,there was another couple I ran into pretty frequently at various parishes and diocesan events. They were major "progressives",spoke with pretty heavy accents and I learned were Austrian. They were clearly very bright and I wanted to know them better but I was hesitant to pursue her invitation because I knew I was not well intentioned and that kind of seemed unethical.

To this day I really wonder about Cardinal Groer from Austria who was accused of the child abuse. He followed Koenig who was one of the wonder boys of Vat II and a darling of the Liberal progressive wing. It will be very interesting to follow this story wherever it leads.

202 posted on 07/12/2004 9:12:35 PM PDT by saradippity
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